Who Punched Harder: Deontay Wilder or Rocky Marciano?

He had British title and Commonwealth title.
Don't know how you determine weak era ( probably if not enough top boxers from U.S? ).
Chisora at least doesn't cherry pick.
Fought Vitali, Whyte, A.J, Fury, Haye, Usyk.
If boxer did not had World Title, this doesn't means that he is bad boxer.

It is not that easy. Probably you are from these fans who worship " Old era " because then all top HW boxers were from U.S ( I mean 70 ies ).

If it is so easy, why majority of pro boxers never were even in TOP50?

 

It's not common for fighters to break their hands. However winning fights with a broken hand is. Calzaghe stopped guys with a broken hand. Corrie Sanders - shot, way over the hill Corrie Sanders - boxed for 9 rounds with a broken left vs Daniel Bispo to win. Coetzee broke both his hands against Schutte's head and still got the W. Etc etc.

Stiverne gives nobody in boxing sleepless nights. Old Arreola is his best win. The guy got KO'd by a fighter with a losing record ffs

Fury did not look good and those two were terrible opponents. The Fury that was saw in Wilder 2 would have mopped them both up in a few rounds on the same night. Go back and read the threads on Fury / Pianeta at the time. Here's one, and some comments from it:

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/fury-couldnt-even-wobble-pianeta.616352/

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And then there's this guy:

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Oh wait. That last one was me.

OK, good. Because you can't regain that much muscle so quickly.

I'm not claiming Fury was trim in #2. I'm claiming he was much stronger. And he was.

You expended a great deal of energy bigging him up, though.

I already said it's OK. I'm just not as impressed as you are, that's all. Other boxers have done it, and so have I, personally. Breaking a hand sucks but the pain mainly comes afterwards.

KLITSCHKO vs Brewster "Wladimir Klitschko fought most of his title bout against Lamon Brewster with a broken left hand. Assistant trainer Jamen Ali Bashir said Sunday that the heavyweight champion broke his middle finger during his technical knockout of Brewster on Saturday."

https://www.tampabay.com/archive/2007/07/09/klitschko-fought-with-broken-hand/

HAYE vs Valuev “I broke my hand in round two,” he told The Independent. “A big overhand right.“This guy had a rock solid jaw and I broke my knuckle on his jaw. In boxing that doesn’t normally happen – normally somebody’s jaw breaks before your hand does when you hit it.”

https://talksport.com/sport/boxing/...-holyfield-nikolai-valuev-height-broken-hand/

MORRISON vs Hipp "On a day Tommy Morrison was falling apart, a couple of right uppercuts pulled him back together. Morrison knocked out Joe Hipp at 2:47 of the ninth round of their nationally televised scheduled 10-rounder at Bally's Reno before 2,000 fans Saturday. Morrison, who grew up in Jay, said his jaw was broken by a Hipp straight left in the second round. Then, in the fourth round, Morrison broke his right hand."

https://tulsaworld.com/archive/inju...cle_8b072009-61f6-5410-b65d-bbe6827a9a91.html

It's obvious to anybody at the time. I refer you to the previously quoted thread from this same site.

I did reply to you and you ignored it.

When did I say anything about Weaver in this thread?

You're falling to pieces. Citing non existent Fury losses, Weaver, ignoring the Marciano / Wilder comparison, pretending Pianeta and Seferi were non-terrible opponents ... etc etc.

 

There are literal hall of famers who have gotten knocked out by nobodies and guys with losing records. This is not a route you want to take.

You consistently keep getting side tracked from the convo and then bring up something else.

I don't need to go back and read anything.

I did not say pinata and sefari were great opponents. Knocking out one guy early without having a mark on you and winning an an easy wide decision without much trouble is hardly indicative that someone looks like "dog shyt".

It was obvious fury took his time to shake off ring rust and get some rounds in. The commentators even mentioned it. Not sure what fights you were looking at but fury did not look horrible for a guy who was inactive and obese for 3 years.

Congratulations, you made an observation I never disagreed with.

Never said Fury in fight #1 and #2 had the same level of strength.

My advice is for you to actually read what I wrote.

All I said was that he was a big durable guy with a cement chin whom Vitali couldn't put a dent in yet he wilted against wilder with a broken hand.

So every boxer reacts the same way to a broken bone?

I was demonstrating how to punch logs in half to my friends. One of them tried it and his technique was off and he hesitated and ended up breaking his knuckle. The pain was immediate and it hurt just to move his fingers let alone punch. Not everyone reacts the same way.

Or ask Earnie Shavers if you'd prefer a pro boxer as an example. Broke his hand in the ron stander fight. He knew it right away and was compromised and ended up losing as he was overly reliant on his right hand.

Brewster was damaged goods in the rematch and arguably shouldn't have even been allowed to box.

Hate did not KO valuev. Learn to follow instructions.

At 6'1 220 lbs and 6 KO losses I would hesitate to call Hipp a "large" opponent and I would hesitate to call him durable.

It is impressive Morrison finished the fight with a KO tho.

So you have me 1/3 valid examples. Seems it isn't all that common to knock out big durable guys with a broken hand.

Post it again and I'll reply.

None of those are examples of you owning me. It was human error to type fury losing and I said it was a mistake. I wrote a lot. I did not ignore the wilder Rocky comparison I brought it up multiple times myself and must have missed your last response. Literally never once claimed pinata or sefari were great opponents.

So in other words you have zero evidence of you stumping, trumping, or owning me in this debate other than in your own mind. You are literally making up points I never made and then arguing against them SEVERAL times in this thread.

 

Yes Chisora does not cherry pick and always gives it his all. I did not say he was a terrible boxer. In terms of ability and accomplishments he is C level. Above average at best.

D level would be mediocre/low tier. F level is garbage.

All you have to do is have a good promoter and remain undefeated nowadays to eventually get put in the top 20. Boxers do not pay their dues like they used to.

The sanctioning bodies are very generous and will set up guys who lost 2 of their last 3 fights in eliminators to get title shots.

 

@Glass City Cobra
Just curious... why would you want to punch a log in half?
(Unless I've completely misread something.)

 

(aside) He's not very bright

 

You're bigging up Stiverne, the guy that KO'd OLD Arreola. I'm bringing you back down to earth again. For some reason you have a problem with this.

You consistently keep getting owned and then complaining about it.

I beat up a couple of toddlers the other day. Not a mark on me. I looked fantastic

My point exactly.

And yet you had a lot to laugh about when I pointed out that Fury was weakened from losing something like 150lb+

Good. My point that Fury did not have enough training to regain his strength after his crash weight loss therefore stands.

Vitali stopped a prime version of Arreola. You're aware of that right? Arreola also reckons, for what it's worth, that Vitali hits harder than Wilder

Old Arreola.

If hand injuries are variable factors, then why are you reacting as if Wilder just walked on water when he managed to beat Arreola? For all we know his injury wasn't even that bad.

Oh so NOW fighters being past their best suddenly counts? Love it.

1) Who is Hate?
2) So NOW boxing the entire fight with a broken hand is non-impressive?

That's 2 inches under Arreola. Maybe we should hesitate to call Arreola durable AND big?

You handily seem to have forgotten Coetzee over Dokes. And you seem to have forgotten (common theme, by now) that I already mentioned Calzaghe stopping guys with a broken hand.

By my reckoning I've proved that (a) boxers fight on with broken hands and (b) boxers stop guys with broken hands. But if you wish to pretend Wilder is unique in that regard please go on. Freedom of religion is a thing.

It's in this thread.

So to recap, you're literally running on fumes here. The versions of Arreola Vitali and Wilder faced were not equivalent and we've gone from Wilder stopping Arreola with a broken hand being an amazing achievement to finessing the argument to what a large durable boxer is

Sorry, could you please punch my Glass City Cobra Ownage Card again? I've got a lot of frequent flyer miles I want to redeem.

 

Wilder`s had more one punc KO`s and Moore took tons of shots from Marciano while Wilder couldn`t have sparked Moore with just a few shots, he`s far more powerful than Marciano was, Rocky couldn`t even spark an old Louis with one shot.

 

Mark Ant stop trying to bring this thread back to the original topic. That's very rude

 

I was a cocky 17 year old martial artist who wanted to do something macho.

 

I am clearly far more intelligent than you are.

Nope, I am simply saying losing to a #1 contender doesn't make Areola garbage.

When and where?

You are quite possibly one of the most idiotic posters in this site.

You claimed Fury looked like dog shyt when he fought pinata and safari. I pointed out he won with very little effort and not a mark on him. Once again, instead of simply acknowledging the point, saying you were wrong and moving on you made a sad attempt to say something funny because now you have your foot in your mouth.

Either you didn't watch those fights, you couldn't remember how Fury looked, or you were thinking of some other fights (I even tried to give you the benefit of the doubt and asked if you were thinking if the otto wallin fight). In any case you were talking out of your ass.

Your point was to mention something obvious that the whole planet observed?

You said, and I quote: "he was as weak as a kitten and looked like dog shyt" in his 2 come back fights despite knocking out 1 opponent effortlessly and winning a wide easy to score decision in the other. At no point did he get roughed up or physically dominated or outboard.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

At no point did I claim Fury losing weight didn't affect him, but I did say him losing 2 lbs between the safari fight and Wilder did not drain or weaken him. There was a whole 4 months between those fights. He went from 258 to 256 and I mentioned this before but you ignored it.

He changed styles and trainers. He gained some strength back but he certainly wasn't "as weak as a kitten" in the first fight. Otherwise he wouldn't have gotten up twice after 2 brutal knock downs.

I wonder if Wilder's broken hand affected his judgement?

Funny how wilder got it done faster despite the injury and supposedly not hitting as hard as Vitali.

Still had a good chin.

Yeah the injury wasn't bad but he got surgery for it.

I'm not acting like he walked on water. Areola is not even his 3rd best opponent. I am simply saying stopping a durable opponent with a broken hand is impressive. You keep looking deeper and deeper into things instead of simply taking what I say at face value.

Areola needed surgery for his eye like Brewster?

1) an obvious auto correct for Haye.

2) did I say that wasn't impressive? I gave you very clear criteria. He did not knock out Valuev.

Create a poll and ask people if they think a 6'1 220 opponent is large in today's era. I'll wait.

Then ask people if you can classify a guy with 6 stoppage losses as being "durable".

Didn't say it doesn't happen. Simply said knocking out a durable opponent with a broken hand is rare not impossible. You gave me 2 valid examples. This does NOT prove it's a common occurance. I don't think you understand what the word "rare" means. There are literally hundreds of boxing match that happen every year for the past 100+ years and it happens less than 1% of the time.

If it matters to you then post it again. I'm not going out of my way to find it.

I never said the Areola from the Vitali fight and wilder fights were exactly the same. You made that up and then argued against it like you always do.

I didn't finesse anything. You gave 3 crappy examples. Brewster was literally On medical suspense in the US after getting eye surgery. Haye did not even drop Valuev let alone KO him. Morrison stopping Hipp was impressive but Hipp was not a very durable or large opponent.

Still no evidence...?

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Did Fergy get banned for that last f-word?

 

I'm not the one that broke their hand punching an old tree stump

1) Who is Areola?
2) There have been many "#1 contenders" that sucked ass. You're not saying much.

Tell us again about your tree punching exploits and how they worked out?

1) Who is pinata?
2) Who is safari?
3) A good version of Fury would have beaten those sad relics from pillar to post. But instead of acknowledging that they were pathetic measuring sticks, you double down and insist that Fury looked good in the fights. Well yeah, he was essentially sparring two heavy bags. See, that's the same way that Wilder beating the remains of Arreola isn't an amazing accomplishment to me, whether or not he broke his hand.

Wow, talk about short term memory loss I even posted an excerpt from a thread AT THE TIME that showed that not only was I not the only person thinking Fury was dogmeat, but my own comments to that effect. Did you forget already? Did you get lost on the way from those comments to here? I'll post it again:

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The comments in blue being by yours truly.

Exactly. Everybody could see that Fury looked crap after his inactivity and weight problems. Everybody except you, who wants to simultaneously believe he looked great ... considering he had been inactive and a whale for three years.

You'd actually be pretty smart, if you were the last human on earth

Correct. A 70 year old man can still look frail and weak even though he is able to beat a 6 year old. Fury can still look like dogshyte even after beating two insignificant opponents. I'm guessing that you still won't 'get' it and I'll have to cut n paste for you. Maybe in bold

 

1) He was much weaker than in the second fight. The second fight reflects what a properly trained Tyson Fury looks like. The version of Fury from the first fight is weak and anemic compared to the #2 version.
2) Maybe Wilder doesn't hit quite as hard as you imagine.

Maybe Wilder got it done faster because Arreola was older and diminished.

Still not as good as prime, unbeaten, young Arreola.

Yeah the injury wasn't bad but he got surgery for it.

I don't have a problem with tipping my hat to a fighter that has guts and wins despite an injury. I have a problem with all the superlatives you heaped on the win like it's a unique and rare event in combat sports. It's not. Lots of fighters keep going after an injury.

Brewster was medically cleared to fight. Arreola was just friggin shopworn.

1) I don't really care for your criteria (which I met anyway)
2) Wilder would drop a load in his neon skull costume if he had to fight Valuev.

Create a poll and ask people whether Arreola is particularly 'large' in today's era

6 stoppage losses out of 50 fights is not indicative of a glass jaw Arreola hasn't even gotten to 50 fights yet and he has 3 stoppage losses. It's likely gonna be 4 after Ruiz lights him up.

So, maybe a thousand times, by your reckoning?

The difference is that Wilder is actually not that good at his preferred range and, apart from missing quite a bit, is unable to keep fights at that range. Guys are able to close him down or, as in the case of Washington, outjab him handily. Marciano knew that he couldn't fight at range and has no problem in forcing his fight on his opponents. He often used his impetus to bull into the opponent and force them off balance and out of stance. Moreover he weaved his head in conjunction with his wild technique in order to not get hit. Wilder by contrast is an easy target for anybody that dares brave the power. There's a reason Wilder was terrified of Povetkin. Povetkin likes to fight in the wheelhouse and that would stifle Wilder's ranged punching.

I pointed out there was a difference and you agreed there was a difference but still pushed the win as something amazing, implying Vitali would not be able to do the same. Vitali never fought the OLD version of well-beaten Arreola that Wilder did.

And it I find more examples (like Coetzee - Dokes, for example) you'll try to invalidate them because the guy was too old, too small, too bald, too greasy ... It's clear you're floundering

I'm riding you like a llama kid

 

I said my FRIEND broke HIS hand on a tree stump.

You are either one of the stupidest ****ing posters on this site or you have some of the worst reading capabilities ever. You do not even read things thoroughly before responding and then back peddle when you get called out. There is no point in continuing.

If you are doing this on purpose just to get a reaction then that confirms my suspicion that you are a childish facetious argumentative buffoon with the emotional maturity of a 14 year old. Either way we are done I'm tired of having to explain basic elementary **** to you.