Why Couldn't Patterson Get Beyond Round One With Liston?

I love digging deep and getting pedantic at times but that's way too much guessing/grasping for me personally.

 

Exactly.

 

This is an underrated comment about an underrated fighter. People just look at the knockout and think Liston simply got lucky or happened to be in the right place and right time. Or they try to downplay the win by blasting Patterson as an opponent.

But as you pointed out, Patterson had gone the distance with many tough strong fighters and even got off the floor to win some fights. It was not a walk in the park to stop Patterson. Liston had power, sure, but people severely underestimate how skilled Liston was to be able to demolish a reigning lineal champ in such a 1 sided affair in 1 round.

And then he did it again.

 

Skills? Liston had over 20 lbs on Patterson and a giant reach advantage.

The real question is...how unskilled would Liston have to be to not knock out an opponent that much smaller?

Patterson on the other hand had to overcome a giant reach advantage on the outside and a giant weight advantage on the inside. He lacked durability and doesn't have much margin of error. Patterson was one of the most skilled heavyweights in history, he was simply overmatched.

Liston was a physical force, a true freak of the division, but it's hard to be appraising of his skills when he rarely was at a disadvantage. Against an opponent of more fair proportion like Big Cat, Liston was durable enough to just walk down the bigger man, suck up his power shots, and win a shoot out.

Can we assume Patterson could have employed Machen's tactics and survived, but he wanted to win and not just go the distance? Liston seemed to think that would be the case and he was right.

 

Completely agree .. Liston , like Frazier and a few others have become footnotes to Ali's legend .. Liston was a terrific fighter and his prime was the late 1950's .. he had very solid boxing skills, a monster jab, underrated speed, terrific strength and monster two handed power .. the man tore through Patterson like no one before or after, twice .. Bonavena was a big puncher who dropped Frazier and rocked Chavulo but he didn't do it .. a young , well conditioned Quarry couldn't do it ... Sonny was for real and the man that lost to Ali was old, inactive and over confident ... Manny Steward even said he didn't know if a prime Ali beats a prime Liston.

 

Excellent post my friend. I agree whole-heartedly.

 

I think Listn was noticeable more skilled than Williams. He put his punches together better than Williams, and that's largely what separated them. That was at least my take when I last saw the fights, but that was a long time ago. But I think ge also showed skill the short time he was in there with Patterson.

His advantages were size, strength and power, of course, but he had the skills to make good use of them.

 

Liston was an extremely skilled heavyweight.

 

Liston`s hook was quick and his reach was far longer than Floyd`s standing in front of a bigger fighter is never a god idea.

 

I don’t think the record shows Sonny was in his prime in the late 1950s because it was not until 1960 that Liston really scored the kinds of wins that made him the really outstanding contender he became. 1960 was when Liston really established himself as a terror in the division.

1958 was practically the start of his relaunch after the two year prison term. He started over in the late 1950s.

He was absent for the whole of 1957 and fought just once in 1956. So Liston really only got his start in 1958. Just starting out. It took a bit to get going. I don’t think you can say he had yet worked up into a real prime without signature wins.

Of course He was active that year, and winning, but he only began to start to meet name fighters in 1959. The second year of this comeback.

His real prime, as a world beater, began no earlier than 1960. Liston was well rounded by then. Seasoned and ready for anyone. This was when he made the grade. Beating better fighters.

 

Excellent post. Size, strength, speed, and power of course mean nothing if you don't have the skills to put them to use. Williams had all of those advantages against Liston but that didn't stop him from getting brutally ko'd.

 

And Williams had fast hands, apart from also punching hard as hell. That's something that's not often mentioned about him.

Last time I watched these fights, I thought Liston put on very composed performances in both despite the furious action. And in the first one he didn't even have that much pro experience.

 

I agree. Sonny stayed calm and took Williams apart. He knew a big guy unloading in front of him like that would eventually produce enough openings for him. It was a very mature beat down he gave the Big cat who himself was quite unused to competitive fights.

 

It's splitting hairs but he was flattening guys w names from the second part of 58 on.

 

You know that history might have been different in 1958, if Sonny Liston had travelled to Sweden and had fought Ingemar Johansson instead of Eddie Machen meeting Ingo.