Joe Frazier '71 vs. Larry Holmes '82

This has always been one of my all time favourite fantasy fights because I find it so hard to call. I see it going the whole 15 with both guys taking a good deal of punishment. The big question is,after Holmes inevitably takes the first few rounds on all the cards against his slow starting opponent,can Frazier take enough of the later stanzas to overhaul Larry's lead ?
My answer is yes. I visualise Joe forging ahead late on and taking most of the last phase of the fight - his stamina was awesome in '71 - thus winning by something like 9 - 6 on all cards.

 

Frazier is the worst stylistic match up for Holmes.

Holmes, even at his peak, wasn't as quick as the 71 Ali. I would give 71 Ali a clear edge in handspeed. And while Muhammad did not dance as well in 71 as he did in 67, Muhammad still had quick feet. At least as quick as Holmes at his peak.

Frazier will make Holmes miss more jabs than anyone else could. Sure, Holmes will score with quite a few but Frazier's head movement will make him miss plenty.

Holmes is not the combination puncher Ali was. Not as quick handed, certainly not as creative and willing to let his hands go as much. Nor do i think Holmes could take a body shot like Muhammad could. And Frazier was a debleating body puncher. If a superior quicker handed combination puncher in Ali could barely keep Frazier off him, i can't see Holmes doing it.

Frazier is a boxers worst nightmare. It would take a superior puncher to beat him (aka Tyson) or a bigger slugger (Foreman, Liston), or a giant hard hitting boxer puncher (Lewis) or an all round genius (Ali). Holmes is great but he is none of these things. He can't keep Frazier off him and would get worn down with powerful body punching.

Frazier UD 15 with a possibility of a stoppage.

 

Larry Holmes matched up well with most heavyweights ever, but if there is any type of fighter that could be a bad matchup is "Joe Frazier Type and a Prime Mike Tyson Type. Holmes, just like his mentor ali, simply would have a hard time trying to keep out of Frazier's range.
Frazier wins a hard fought decision, after sending Holmes to the canvas in the last round.
If Holmes stayed outside, stayed on his bicycle, jab him all night long, controlling distance with that long, hard, jab, he might do as well as ali did.
Frazier is still the Favorite IMO.

 

But holmes does have a better and heavier jab than ali.

 

Frazier win s but he's facing one of the toughest, big hearted heavyweight fighters ever. Probably just below Ali, Holyfield or Marciano. Joe gets an hard fought decision but pays the price with his face bashed in, due to that Holmes jab.

 

I guess I'm going to go with Larry. I note the points above and respect these opinions.
I don't think you needed to be a speed demon to beat Frazier. Holmes has enough zip in his punches and was plenty fast enough with his hands.
Obviously, he has the height and reach advantage, and the intelligence in my opinion to use these to his fullest advantage.
Larry has 15 round stamina, was tough as old leather, and had a warrior's heart. Also, the best jab I've seen a heavyweight throw. I think he'd deal better with Frazier's hook than Ali, who never figured that hook of Joe's out.
I also don't see Larry laying on the ropes like Ali did during stretches of FOTC, allowing Frazier to get in hooks to head and body.
If hurt, Larry would always fire back. He had a great chin and heart.

I see this going the distance, Larry taking it in a great fight. No knockdowns.

 

Frazier UD.

 

Frazier.

Holmes being the brutally honest character he is still reveres Joe and recounts as a matter of pride getting his ribs broke in sparring against him. Holmes doesn’t do false modesty and if Joe impressed him then you can bet he had something that warranted Larry’s respect.

Great epic fight. Frazier’s animalistic work rate, and determination sees him floor Larry and take a ****ing hard fought UD.

 

Based on what? Making a comeback and been demolished by a prime Tyson at the top of his game?

The worst stylistic matchup for Holmes throughout his career have been straight up boxer types with good jabs similar to himself like Norton, Williams and even Witherspoon. This was why Holmes late in his career was wise to avoid boxers like Thomas and Page.

 

While Norton and Frazier were different, i don't see Norton as a straight up boxer. Norton was a pressure fighter, especially when fighting guys like Ali and Holmes. Yes, Kenny had a great jab which Joe doesn't, yes he was taller, but i don't see Norton as a straight up boxer. Norton had powerful hooks and knew how to pressure the long range boxer types.

Frazier applies pressure better than anyone. To keep Frazier away, you need exceptional power (Foreman, Liston, Lewis) or superior hand speed and two handed power (Tyson). Holmes just doesn't have the punching ability to keep Joe away and he can't dance away from Joe for 15 rounds. In fact, even at Larry's peak, he had many rounds where he fought flat footed. Its highly disastrous vs a strong pressure fighter like Joe.

 

Heavier? Slightly. Faster? No. Plus, Ali was a better combination puncher. Some of the combinations Ali landed on Liston, Foreman and Frazier were faster and more creative than anything Larry could muster at his peak.

 

Don’t agree. Frazier was constant motion but much of it was just bobbing and dodging and constantly feinting his hands up and down, even tapping his own head and chin, before setting up his punches. A bit like Holyfield constantly bouncing up and down on his feet. It’s looks like he’s a picture of non stop movement but it’s really not doing anything to the opposition. Holmes against Tyson was different as the pressure against Holmes came with the real threat that Tyson could have knocked him down with either hand and unlike Frazier, Tyson had the blinding handspeed that Frazier lacked to catch Holmes by surprise with his power. Holmes looked as wary of Tyson’s speed and angles of delivery as much as his constant pressure Don’t think he would would be as wary of Frazier who was far more predictable in his attacks.

 

I think Tyson would have always been a tough fight for holmes at any point in his career. Just Like Frazier with Ali, Smokin Joe's inside fighting game, pressure style and bob and weave would have always problematic for any version of Muhammad.

 

I see the unstoppable train like Smoking Joe Frazier of 1971 would have hunted down Larry Holmes throughout the distance while bobbing and weaving crashing home punishing left hooks to the midriff of Larry. This tactic would take the wind out of Larry's sails, also taking away Holmes mobility. I see a hard fought unanimous decision for Joe. Corner wise, Frazier has the edge, Yank Durham and Eddie Futch.