Sugar Ray Leonard and Muhammad Ali were both showboaters. Which of them was the better fighter?

Leonard got dominated by Norris, a guy in his prime who was fast as hell.
Ali got dominated by Holmes, in his prime and fast as hell.
Neither should even be mentioned, as Ali and Leonard were way past it.

 

Leonard by far. Ali had a lot of technical flaws as a boxer. He could get away with them against vyweighgs, who were often smaller than him as well. He leaned back from punches, fought with his hands at his sides, rarely went to the body, and sometimes had to resort to pushing opponents heads down and holding to avoid their onslaught.

 

From a technical standpoint its Ray. I also prefer watching Ray more. Never cared for that other clown

 

They were both way, way over the hill. It doesn't do anything for either man's legacy, no detract from it.

 

Ali took a ton of punishment in Manila from a considered to be shot and blind in one eye Frazier because of defensive short comings once his reflexes slide. The Frazier he beat was almost as old , again near blind in one eye and had far more miles of damage on him than Ali had. The Norris Leonard drought was a much younger man , a bigger man, in his own physical prime .. closer to Ali fighting Holmes than Ali fighting Frazier .. again, Ali was an exceptional fighter but it was because of his natural reflexes, hand speed, foot speed, size, physical strength, exceptional chin and heart .. as his natural reflexes started to go his lack of technical skill became more obvious and he go t hit far more that he would have if he had technical skills to fall back on .. Ali was 33 years old for Manila and then became a very old 34 and 35 year old fighter because of how much he got hit.

 

Muhammad Ali and Sugar Ray Leonard. I'll say that I have to go with Ali as the better fighter, the only reason why is because when Ali can't do his fancy footwork and dancing around, the man will actually try to out-fight you which was insane but it worked. Sugar Ray Leonard will be considered as the better boxer because he can do it all, in-fight, out-box, and go to the body if needed. I can't really choose so I'll just leave it at that.

 

Frazier was 30 and top contender. Not in any viable reality had he had more punishing fights than Ali. The examples where a 33-year old champion beats someone of the quality of that Frazier is rare. Even rarer is a 32-year old beating someone like Foreman.

Ali did very well in his 30's. You know this, so cut the act.

But this is about your claim that Ali did nothing right from a technical standpoint. This is flat out wrong. He had flaws, but did several things very right.

 

Dude your argument is faulty and ridiculously full of wholes and irelevant .. I'm not interested in going round and round with a last word freak over so silly an argument .. .. the thread is P4P better Ali or Leonard and I say Leonard .. as far as defensively, who ended their career seriously injured from pronounced beatings and who speaks fine even today ?

 

Yep, you're deep into straw man territory now so might as well end it.

But to close:

As you well know I have said several times that Leonard was the more complete fighter technically (it's in a first post in this thread a in several replies to you), so that's not an issue. You know this, but drag it out like you don't because you also know that you've lost the argument.

Because: The thing you said that I objected against is that Ali didn't do anything right from a technical standpoint. While he had flaws, he definitely also did do other things well from a technical standpoint. Things with I have named. Anyone who actually has watched Ali and knows what he's looking at knows this. You're toting lines that's typical for someone who wants to sound knowledgeable, but actually knows jack. That's what I called you on. And you know that, so please try and have the dignity to not pretend like you don't.

 

Mark sort of asked per "skills" but i find myself looking for posts addressing "effectiveness" as a fighter.

At face value Leonard is the better rounded technician and has an enormous amount of assets but we know heavyweights are at a bit of a disadvantage on this front.

Who was the more "effective" when they were actually in the ring at their best? Having the most tools does not necessary make someone a better fighter.

I wouldn't favor a single heavyweight in history over Ali. I'd definitely "favor" SRR over Ray but not anyone else.

Both are incredibly effective fighters. They get the job done with what they both personally bring to the table and both fight at a level very few have ever attained.

I'd have Ali a little above Ray in my P4P list if i had one. As far as effectiveness there's little to split them with.

I wouldn't lose sleep going either way to either criteria personally.

 

Ali by the proverbial mile