Mike Tyson 1988 vs. Wladimir Klitschko 2009

That’s true. But Mike had the style and speed to get inside of any fighter’s range.

He had the head movement, the speed of hand and foot, and the angles and the technique to get inside.

Wlad is only 3” taller than Frank Bruno, with an equal reach.

An extra 3” in height wouldn’t have been enough to have prevented Mike from getting inside.

An opponents reach, style and speed is more troublesome than a fighter’s height.

Mike would have slipped in and targeted Wlad’s body.

 

I would root for Tyson as the smaller man & underdog, + Odins beard used innacurate numbers-he rounded up or used a heavier than usual weight for Wlad 245, but Tyson at 210? Anything that could be considered prime he was 214-221, usually right between 215-220.

But there is a significant flaw in your otherwise solid analyses.
Well first Wlad did get significantly better after he lost to Peter.
And maybe the single biggest thing he got better at was tying people up/the jab & grab.

It does not make sense that you he could not get close to a smaller man-if anything it is easier.
Tyson had a single major flaw in that he could be tied up-& pushed back-easily.
You might count it as another one that he could not fight well on the inside.

He hardly tried to at all-some did not realize that, because Tyson had to get closer to be effective against his taller & longer opponents, but it was still mid-range for him.

If Wlad is allowed to tie up like he -maybe always(?) was & did so much against Povetkin, Tyson is quite unlikely to have been able to mount enough of an offense to win.

IF it is officiated like the Thrilla in Manilla-when Ali was quickly warned twice, then it became a war of attrition...
He has a much better chance.

 

I don’t think that Wlad got specifically better has he aged, again, he was just more cautious. But yes, it tightened up his defence. So in that respect, he was harder to beat.

The Povetkin fight was horrible. But those horrible tactics got him the win. But would he have found the same success against a version of Mike Tyson from 1988?

He could have initiated a clinch at every opportunity. But Mike had the head movement and the hand and foot speed that Povetkin didn’t possess.

Wlad could tried to have worn Mike down. But I think that Mike would have found opportunities to have landed something significant.

 

It was apparently unintentional. But fighting 9-10 rounds with the entire nail ripped off your big toe can be incredibly distracting. Tyson doesn't get a lot of credit for his perseverance.

 

Why Thrillia in Manilla , why won't the fight be officiated like Tyson's own fights against Ferguson , Smith and Bruno?

Point deductions for Smith caused him to lose to sores of 120 -106. . Jesse Ferguson was DQ'd for holding and Frank Bruno was threatened with DQ for doing the same.
So why wouldn't it be like most of Tyson's fights back then where the refs penalized foul play.. Why does Wlad get to have a favorable ref that allows him to break the rules in this fantasy match up?

 

Of course Tyson was a very good fighter on the inside , The notion he couldn't operate in close is a myth. . Just cos some guys stuck to him like a mollusk don't mean he had no inside game.
You wouldn't say Lewis had no inside game because of how Henry kept tying him up.

Tyson's best punches were thrown in close. Body shots uppercuts are not mid range shots for a guy with Mike's reach

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Yes if being cautious & clinching both more & effectively helps you win, that is better.
It would be great if Tyson could get to him. But it seems more likely that a much bigger World Class opponent who is good at clinching will be able to thwart most anyone-if they are allowed to do so.

Which they should not be allowed to do often, but it is usually allowed.

 

Huh? I started the whole post with IF. I did not weigh in about what is most likely to be allowed.
But there is no reason to assume that the rules would be enforced either like you described, or as Wlad benefited from forever, or '70's Ali.

 

Very good, except I have no reason to believe that people who guess jelly beans numbers in jars are either informed in how to estimate them, nor that a statistically large enough sample that is averaged out will be anywhere near exactly accurate.

 

Could you envisage a scenario where he’d have done that successfully for 12 rounds?

I honestly can’t envisage it. And it’s not because I don’t want to. I’m trying to be objective.

I think Mike would have caught him, hurt him and stopped him.

 

Yes of course I can.
It would be the most likely outcome-unless Wlad is denied much grabbing at all.
You could argue that a Bonehugger & a couple others like Green were not able to do win.
But Wlad was somewhat better than them.

And even so Tyson did not stop those clinch-aholics.
While they were also not as good at it, largely because that was not their usual styles, unlike Wlad, they were not as adept at stifling offense that way.

 

There would be no logic in only have given Mike just a 20% chance to have won.

Wlad was vulnerable to speed, power and pressure.

He didn’t like to fight.

He was psychologically scarred from his early knockout defeats.

Mike would more than likely have intimidated him.

It would have been a very tough stylistic match up for Wlad, as Mike would have been very elusive.

 

The poll is reflective of the overall sentiment. Smart money would be on Tyson. This isn't meant to be a knock on Wlad, we are in the classic forum after all, but most of us don't believe Wlad is capable of defeating Mike Tyson in his prime. You want to chalk it up to favoritism be my guest it doesn't change the fact that Tyson would have beaten up Wlad if they fought.

By the way the only thing Wlad would accomplish if he was "allowed to hold" is that he can preserve his ego with a UD loss rather than a KO loss. You can't beat Tyson without taking risks. Wlad simply would be out of his element if he took risks against a fighter with Tyson's hand speed, power and athleticism.

 

Those guys just looked to survive.

They lost most of the rounds.

Wlad wouldn’t have won a fight with those same tactics.

At some point, it’s only realistic to assume that Mike would have gotten inside Wlad’s reach.

 

Exactly.

Those awful tactics wouldn’t have won him the fight. And I think that Mike would still have gotten to him at some point.