This is a discerning & intelligent post! But as for what you said about my opinion...I had not voted yet, & actually I was saying that Tyson's chance goes way up if the rules against clinching were enforced. But I still do not have much confidence there, it would be near 50-50 given the size differential (only relevant when the Big Man is World Class too), & Wlad's ability to land some offense. Actually if I vote based upon no information on how things are refereed, given that often boxers are allowed too much holding, if we average in that happening I would say Wlad wins more often! Even though I would want the fight to be clean, & generally favor the man who wants to engage more, & someone so much smaller (although due to his lower body, more muscle for his height).
Yes. But also some stylistic problems for Tyson with a 8 inch taller opponent who punches harder and is stronger than anyone he met in his prime.
If neither Tillis or Douglas are "allowed" then at the very least it has to be said that Thomas, Tucker and Tubbs all had some success in landing from distance. They and Douglas are the best boxers Mike met, but Wlad was much better. This thinking that Tyson would slip and counter everything Wlad threw is based mostly on fantasy. There is little to suggest in what he actually did that he would do that.
Just putting your case for Wlad and being content with that is the answer. I think people who have voted are likely to have speculated on a Tyson/Wlad match-up before this thread, having also considered relative strengths and weaknesses, and are simply comfortable with their pick. I've seen a relative handful of comments that reflect a conditional pick, but not nearly enough to make a confident, theoretical dent in the poll results. The common basis of a fantasy head-to-head is that it is a prime-for-prime, best-for-best match-up (unless otherwise stipulated). The context you write of broadens the scope of the subject matter. It is a different type of conversation. It's incidental, but Rooney trained Tyson for all of his fights in '88. I'm not concerned about it enough that I would go to those lengths or bother to question a ridiculous reason, such as the example you give. In the context of a Forum Poll, where people discuss these matters constantly and have no doubt considered certain speculative scenarios in their own time, I find that, in the main, it is reasonable to have some faith in the views of the voters. I have held the minority views in Polls before now and I am more inclined to re-examine my own position than to look for reasons, as to why the Poll is wrong or perverse. For sure. Polls are mere indicators but, regardless of doubts about motive, there has been some fairly useful reasoning put forward for both sides of the case. That Tyson's case is being perceived as stronger is no surprise to me.
The only success you could attribute to Pinky was his chin as he got his clock cleaned all throughout by left hook counters when he tried to jab. That man got destroyed. It has to be said that both Pinky and Buster had very good jabs. Between them they knocked guys down and out with their jabs. They had varied snappy jabs and could box n move while jabbing. Something Klitschko couldn't do. Larry holmes still had a very good jab aged 45 against Atom Bull. Williams had a very good jab. These men were obliterated. Buster didn't just throw jab at Mike. He put combos and uppercuts at the end of his jabs. The notion Mike slips and counters what Wlad threw is based on reality. It's based on him doing it guys who used the jab better than Klitschko did. If klitschko has such a great jab, what are his best jabbing performances and against who? What good jabber he ever out jab?
I never mentioned jab, I wrote "landing from distance" and that Wlad did a lot to a lot of opponents, as you know. And rewatch the Thomas fight - between the first and the last round he had good success keeping Tyson at bay. Tyson never did what people here said he would do to Wlad to anyone remotely close to Wlad in terms of ability to keep the opponent out of range and at the end of his punches.
Indeed. However, I have noticed some really quite novel coping mechanisms on show, during this thread.
If the Thomas fight is meant to be favourable for Wlads case then why not look at Wlads fight with Calvin Brock in which he was getting outlanded in power punches and took some clean hard shots to the body during the opening half. The footage doesn't lie , Wlad couldn't keep Brock on the outside and restored to leaning all over his back as usual. Brock amongst others proves without a shadow of a doubt that WK would be completely incapable of keeping Tyson off him. And like I said , Pinky could move and jab. If you had to pick a style to defeat Tyson it would be a guy who could move around the ring behind a jab or a guy with a good inside game.. WK was neither of those guys.
Sure, you can bring cases that points to Tyson breaching Wlad's defences. I'm not saying otherwise. What I'm saying is that you can can make those cases both ways. Brock, Brewster or whomever proves nothing beyond a doubt more than Thomas, Tucker, Tillis or Douglas do. Thomas was a good fighter, but nowhere near Wlad. Not even in the same stratosphere when he was at his best. A case can be made that Wlad post 2005 is the best HW ever at keeping smaller opponents at range. No such case can be made in the slightest about Thomas. But to be perfectly frank, that's all the time I will waste on you. While I'm no Wlad fan, I know that you're a full blown hater and no argument whatsoever will have the slightest effect on you concerning him and therefore aren't really worth the time.
So who was in the same stratosphere as Tyson than Wlad kept at range? Waiting on an answer.. Im no hater , im just a realist. Fact is Wlad struggled more to keep guys off him more than Tyson struggled to get close to guys. Wlad was the best ever at keeping guys at range was he? Prove it ,against who? I guess you quit the debate now that you have to produce factual data
This Wlad from 2010. Against a shot to bits Peter who moved like a turtle https://www.boxingnews24.com/2010/09/steward-was-telling-wladimir-to-stop-clinching-peter/ Why is what you say so different to what his own trainer says? Is it because you don't really have any knowledge on this subject? I bet you wen't aware of Wlads struggle and complete inability to keep Calvin Brock off him. Thats why you want out. Tell me what you see here? Will I explain it to you? http://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/imported_assets/2167469/timed_right_hand.gif
Don't run away , come back and finish the debate like a man. If you don't it proves you were posting false statements
