George Foreman Vs Rocky Marciano

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Sizzle, Sep 5, 2007.



  1. Bah Lance

    Bah Lance Active Member banned Full Member

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    Honestly Glass City Cobra belongs in the Ignore Graveyard. Nobody is gonna get anywhere with this guy.

    He picked Jimmy Young and Ellis to "steam roll" Joe Louis.

    I've already broken down his illogical hypocrisy concerning the victories he touted for Tua and Shavers...this is like arguing mathematics with a pile of laundry.
     
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  2. Boxing GOAT

    Boxing GOAT Active Member Full Member

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    Excellent breakdown. Whenever I watch that fight I still see the remnants of Louis former greatness slipping punches and timing Rocky. For the first half of that fight he was competitive and still demonstrated superior footwork and counter punching. But, his reflexes were shot, and his legs could not longer keep a grueling pace set by Rocky. It should be obvious to any boxing fan that any version of Louis in his prime (sans the first loss to Schmeling) would maul Marciano.
     
  3. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King Full Member

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    Louis was not the champion when he was 37 year old contender so this is pointless to bring up. Louis was just a decent contender, an old veteran with a good jab and lots of experience and not much else. He would have gotten thrashed by Walcott or Charles if he rematched them. He was not good enough to be champ again.

    They all surpassed what Louis could do in 1951. Louis best win was what, a heavily shopworn light heavyweight Savold? 2 fights with Brion? Agromonte had lost 3 of his last 5 fights. You think Lyle, Shavers, Tua, Williams, Tillis, Ellis, etc would have fallen short against those guys?

    Larry has nothing to do with this discussion.

    Louis was not a threat to any durable aggressive young world class fighter, end of discussion.

    I don't want to hear about how Louis looked prior to facing Marciano. All that matters is how he looked when facing Marciano since you claimed THAT version of Louis was good enough to prove Marciano could hang with prime 200 pound contenders. Anything else is irrelevant to the conversation.
     
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  4. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King Full Member

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    George might literally kill him. He was intentionally trying to do as much damage as he could in the 70's so that people would be scared of him. He was a very vicious and evil boxer back then. Combine that with the stylistic advantage and size difference and you have a recipe for disaster.
     
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  5. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    You need to understand Savold was not a light heavyweight. He was as big as Louis. You must be unfamiliar with the history.

    They wouldn’t have done much better.

    Have you seen the Cesar Brion film? Brion was trained by Charlie Goldman and had Ray Arcel in his corner. They didn’t work with losers. 24 years old. Louis beat him twice.

    were the steamrolling list of men that you listed destined to beat every durable aggressive young world class fighter themselves? Look at the age of them when they scored their best wins and the age and rank of their best opponents.

    If you don’t want to hear about how Louis looked prior to facing Marciano (as the betting favourite by the way) you must be in denial.

    Not really. A fighter only looks as good as his opponent will let him. Against the right opponent Louis was still a very good fighter. Which is why he was favoured to beat Rocky. This was a 50-50 fight at the time.

    Louis was a 200 pound contender though. Marciano didn’t just hang with him. He beat him!
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2021
  6. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He picked Young and Ellis to beat a 37 year old washed Louis. You're attempting to disingenuously word it like he picked Young and Ellis to beat a prime one.

    You're quickly becoming one of the most dishonest posters here. Chok, you've got some competition!
     
  7. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    :lol:
     
  8. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    No he was not. He was very clearly talking about the 37 year old version. And it would be disingenuous of you to imply that it was the prime version. Stop playing games.

    you guys have hit a wall here.

    it is unlikely Young and Ellis ever steamroll good fighters. It wasn’t their style. Even 37 year old ones with a winning streak.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2021
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  9. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    "He picked Jimmy Young and Ellis to "steam roll" Joe Louis. " How is it "very clear" he was talking about the 37 year old version when he doesn't even mention it at all? It was a disingenuous play of words, and this is further confirmed by the fact that the most dishonest poster on this forum is defending it.
     
  10. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King Full Member

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    Louis weighed 211 and Savold weighed 190. He was not as big as Louis.

    This is your opinion and given your track record of incredible bias, doesn't mean much honestly in the context of this thread.

    Brion was feather fisted and mostly fought local Argentinian guys. When he stepped up in class and fought more recognizable names he didn't look so good. He lost to Charles, Baker, Louis, Lastarza, and Rex Layne. An old gunshy veteran doesn't have to worry about a feather fisted guy whose best wins are mostly local/national level and who often loses whenever they step up on class even if they have good trainers. A veteran usually doesn't have to worry about re matching a guy he already beat, especially a limited guy with very mixed results at the world level.

    Never said the men on my list were destined to beat every durable aggressive world class opponent so why are you asking such a dumb loaded question?

    I'm not in denial of anything. You are.

    Let me walk you through this with baby steps since you have completely lost sight of the conversation:

    -thread is about Rocky vs Foreman
    -I said I doubt Rocky's h2h chances vs prime ranked 200+ pound men since he has approximately zero on his resume.
    -I challenge anyone to show me footage of Rocky beating a prime 200 pound contender.
    -You desperately cling to the Rocky vs Louis fight even AFTER admitting Louis was past his prime, wasting everyone's time.
    -You continue wasting time by claiming 37 year old Louis was still "world class" due to his ranking and was as good as any contender in any era (comedy).
    -You claim Rocky's win over a past his prime gunshy 37 year old opponent is evidence he can hang with prime opponents who let their hands go (illogical).
    -You continuously bring up feats from matches prior to Louis vs Rocky. What Louis did prior to the Rocky fight is irrelevant because, once again, you are claiming based on how Rocky looked specifically during his fight against Louis, that Rocky could hang with prime 200 pound fighters. The ONLY fight that is relevant to the discussion is Louis vs Rocky.

    We don't know how Louis would look against the "right" opponent because he retired immediately after getting steam rolled. Because he was past his prime, and you already admitted it. He had nothing left but his experience and his jab. How Louis would look against anyone else is irrelevant and would just be speculation and guess work on your part. All that matters is that DURING his fight with Rocky he was gunshy, didn't let his hands go, and wasn't very quick or durable. Not the most convincing opponent if you're claiming Rocky could hang with able bodied 200+ prime contenders.

    But he wasn't a prime 200 pound contender which was the criteria. Yet here you are multiple pages and 2 days later still clinging to this. :lol:
     
  11. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I gave you two examples of good movement maybe go back and read the post. Boxrec does not make a difference between tko and KO other then on the specific fight is someone went 49-0 w 43 KOs they list it as such not 20kos and 23 tkos. If you someone is knocked out on their feet it’s still a TKO. And no you’re the only person I’ve ever seen use this odd argument of trying not to count tkos.
    Gazelle punch is used for long range hook shots by shorter fighters. As I also stated watch literally ANY marciano fight to see he had zero problems on the outside midrange or inside. Even the most die hard Marciano haters don’t call him one dimensional. Had he been one dimensional he certainly would have lost and lost plenty.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2021
  12. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Again, let's not exaggarate. 1951 Louis wasn't close to his prime form, but he was still good fighter who would beat a few names off that list.

    It doesn't mean that this fight should be used as a proof of Rocky beating 200+lbs ATG, but stop acting like Louis was in no condition to fight.
     
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  13. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King Full Member

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    Your argument was that Louis still had power even at 37 but he only scored 1 KO in 9 fights. The two other opponents he stopped on their feet. There's levels to punching power. If one guy has 20 KO's but he only managed to drop 5 of them and the rest were stopped on their feet and one guy has 20 KO's and brutally knocked out all 20 leaving the opponents drooling unconscious on the canvas it would be quite obvious to anyone with a set of eyes that the 2nd guy has more raw punching power.

    I have seen several Rocky fights. most of the ones available on youtube Don C, Moorer, Louis, charles, Walctot, Louis, etc. I don't recall ever seeing him use great lateral movement or being able to fight on the outside. If you can't back up your claims either your claim is false or you don't feel like providing an example. This is a long thread, just mention which 2 fights and I'll gladly double check them.

    A gazelle punch is ONE punch that he throws, not an example of a fighter being able to fight at that range consistently. That would be like saying Ruddock is great at long range because of his smash punch.
     
  14. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King Full Member

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    I didn't say he was in no condition to fight.

    And sure, he may beat some of the men on the list. But that wouldn't be the most likely scenario, especially against guys like Tua, Whyte, Lyle, Young etc in their prime. They would pick Louis apart at their absolute best.
     
  15. IHaveAscreenName804

    IHaveAscreenName804 Member banned Full Member

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    The fact that people can't grasp that their weight classes in combat sports is shocking too me. The fact that people can't grasp that Rocky Marciano was a 5'10 180 pound guy so he wasn't even close to being a modern sized heavyweight is shocking.

    Rocky Marciano's best win were over a washed up Joe Louis who was a natural 195-200 pound guy. Joe Louis fought in a weak era. The guys weren't nearly as skilled as heavyweights from the 70's, 80's, and 90's were. Joe Louis feasted on low level guys from the era to the degree where the people he fought during his title reign wee considered bums even for that era.

    Rocky beat a washed up Archie Moore who started his career at 140 and fought at 160 or so until he late 20's. Rocky beat Ezzard Charles a started his career in the 160's and was in the 170's in his prime. Rocky beat Jersey Joe Walcott a guy who turned pro at 160 but was in the 180-190s at his peak. Each of these guys were past their peak against Marciano. Neither one of these guys were modern sized heavyweights and or as big as a prime George Foreman. Each of these guys were knocked out before they fought Marciano. Charles, Walcott, and Moore were knocked out various times before they fought Marciano.

    But yeah these sad little Rocky Marciano fans still believe Marciano could beat Foreman. They will tell you if Ron Lyle, or Ali could knock Foreman down then Rocky could knock Foreman out. Ali weighed 220 and knocked Foreman down from fatigue and Ron Lyle was also 220 pounds and 6'3. They will tell you but Marciano punched harder. Why would you believe a 180 pound guy could punc has hard as a 220 plus pound guy?

    That is like saying Harvin Hagler could punch harder than Mike Tyson. Also Marciano fanboys will never tell you taht 160-170 pound Ted Lowry almost knocked out Marciano.

    Marciano couldn't beat any version of Foreman doing his career. If Marciano made it out the first round it would be shocking.