August 1958. Tonight, Floyd Patterson will take on the former Heavyweight Champion, Rocky Marciano. Its Rocky's first fight since beating Archie Moore 3years ago. Floyd is a slight favourite to win but a good few, respected voices, belive that Rocky can regain his heavyweight title. So with that said, who wins?
I'm torn with deciding prime Rocky v Patterson. I keep seeing Ingo blasting him to the floor. And it's Patterson s chin that could make all the difference there. But a comeback Rocky? I see Floyd getting a decision over him, using those grease lightning hands to crash in to Rock s chin. .. Still, always that danger with Marciano s power.
60-40 fight for me really for Marciano, it'll take one punch from Marciano to daze/wobble Patterson as he didn't have a good chin. But would he be able to land a flush shot? Idk, i think if Patterson gets KO'd its gonna be a late one like Walcott. I see Marcianos constant aggression and pressure wearing down Patterson until the final rounds where Floyd is slow enough for Marciano to land some good hits. Marciano Late KO
Not that Floyd had a great chin that could withstand the Rock's power if he got a good dose of it, but Patterson was a very athletic fighter for a long long time and I think could easily outbox and outmaneuver the Rock at this point in time. Floyd by a mostly easy decision.
He would be 34-35 which is still relatively young. Ring rust would become the main issue but i think with his worth ethic he would be able to get over all the disadvantageous of age and rust from retirement. However when he tried to comeback in 1958 the fire he had towards training wasn't as it used to be, so he showed that if he wasn't gonna be at his best then he wasn't going to fight. Considering this is a hypothetical where he DOES comeback i would wager he would be disciplined as he would only fight if he was going to fight at his best. So essentially to me if Marciano is able to train at his fullest potential (which i think he does) he won't be as much different than in his last fight.
Prime For prime I would make Marciano a heavy favorite, but that is not the question being asked. Much of course would depend upon what sort of form Marciano could recover. My suspicion is that between two years of inactivity, and his back problems, he would never have got back anything approaching his 1956 form. I therefore install Patterson as the favorite, if not a prohibitive one, owing to Marciano's power.
You'd have to favour Patterson at this stage. Coming off after around three years to challenge the champ is going to be tough, regardless of who it is. I think long periods of inactivity hurt short fighters more too. Rocky also as stated discovered he didn't have the zest for training as he once did, when secretly planning a fight with Ingo. All in all, he'd be up against it.
This. It definitely isn’t a good idea to to jump in the ring against elite competition coming off a long lay-off. Even Larry Holmes despite how great a fighter he was after only a two year layoff got flattened by Tyson. Rocky's trainer Al Colombo wasn't crazy about the idea of Rocky making a comeback once he retired. Here is Al Colombo talking about Marciano possibly retiring in 1956 and his thoughts on it. "This is only a personal opinion, but I know Rocky is proud of the championship and what it's meant both to him and his family, so why should he surrender it without a fight? Before he left on his South American trip, we used to hike eight or 10 miles a day around our home town of Brockton and never once did he indicate he was even thinking of retiring. HOWEVER, I want to say this. I haven't seen him for the last two weeks so I don't know what's on his mind during his current trip. I, myself, don't think he should retire because he's never been seriously hurt, he's in good shape and, at 33, is still comparatively young. I'm afraid if he should retire now he might make the same mistake as Joe Louis and other fighters and try to come back two years later. He then would be fighting as the ex-champion and he could never make up for the lost time. Rocky should continue fighting and then when he does retire make it definite like Gene Tunney did. I WENT WITH ROCKY to catch his plane for South America to catch his plane for South America and never saw him so happy. He was looking forward to the trip because it was his first real vacation in eight years and from the post-cards he's sent me I gather he's enjoying himself. He said before leaving he wouldn't be ready for a fight in June but indicated he would defend his title in September. He weighed about 210 pounds when he left, which is about 20 pounds over his fighting weight, but not too heavy for him. He weighed just as much before training for last year's fight with Archie Moore. Rocky is a great competitor but he doesn't like to fight just for the sake of fighting. There hasn't been much talk about his next bout because of the lack of logical contenders. Most of them have been eliminating themselves in recent months. IF SOME FIGHTER, like Floyd Patterson, could get hot, though and win a couple of good bouts, there wouldn't be any problems getting Rocky to fight him. Regarding Rocky's family, his mother has wanted him to retire for some time but she's an intelligent woman and knows that the decision must be Rocky's alone. There's no family pressure involved. So it's all up to Rocky. But my personal conviction is that he won't retire until he has a least one more good fight. He's too proud of that title." https://imgur.com/9ri1srR In this piece from 1958 the topic of coming out of retirement to fight Patterson is brought up to Marciano, who admits he's 228 lbs and is staying at a 5 Star Hotel and doesn't seem like a guy who's willing to go back to making the sacrifices a successful fighter needs to make. Rocky Marciano was in a group lunching in Toots Shor's. "Speak of the devil," a man said. "Have your ears been burning? Some of us were just talking about you yesterday. Talking about bringing you back to fight Patterson." "I heard about it." Rocky said. "You all agreed it would be very interesting." "That isn't all," the man said, "we were speculating about the best possible money match that could be made now, Patterson-Moore? Moore-Robinson? Robinson-Basilio? Basilio-Akins. Everybody agreed there was nothing to compare with you and Patterson for big money-except that we hoped it wouldn't happen and were pretty sure it couldn't happen." Grinning, the former heavy-weight champion gave a barely perceptible nod. When he quit the ring three years ago, he was the only champion in the history of mankind who had never lost a fight or been held to a draw. The nod could have been confirmation of his resolve to protect that record forever in the retirement, the only place it could ever be truly safe. The old champ looked big and tough and relaxed. His sports jacket seemed tight across his shoulders, but there was always this look of bulkiness about him, even a a young contender watching his diet and pounding the road everyday, coming in at 184 pounds against Jersey Joe Walcott. "What do you think he weighs now?" A man asked Shor at the next table. "Two-Thirty," Toots whispered behind a hand. "Ask him." The man did. "Two-Twenty-eight." Rocky said, ducking his head. "What did I say?" the proprietor crowed. "He's cheatin by a couple of pounds." "No," Rocky said. "here I'm being honest. I could've said 222." "Two-thirty." Toots insisted, "why do you think I hugged you when you came in?" "Is that why you grabbed me?" Rocky said. "Sure," a man said. "He's studying to run one of those guess-your-weight concessions at Coney Island when this joint closes." "If Patterson ever hit you downstairs-." Shor said, and Rocky laughed. "When I was in the amateurs." he said. "I boxed like this." He lifted hands and forearms high in front of his face, leaving the body exposed. "When I first went with Weill, Charley Goldman asked me what I though I was doing. 'I don't want to get busted up in the face.' I told him, 'or my mother won't let me fight'." Marciano said he had encountered Archie Moore not long after their bout. It was Rocky's last defense of his title, and he clubbed the gallant old warrior senseless in nine rounds. Archie couldn't understand how the champion had managed to hit so often with right hands. "I told him." Rocky said, "how I shortened up with my right, moved over here and dropped it in over his left. I kept hitting him over the ear because it was hard to get a shot at his chin, but I was pretty sure he couldn't keep taking 'em all night." "Archie told me." Jimmy Cannon said. "That he was astonished because he couldn't catch you with a left hook. He said you can't be hit with a left hook." "I remember a hook that hit him." another said." "Walcott," Rocky Said, recalling the punch that dropped him in the first round when he was going for Jersey Joe's title. "If it had been a little lower it could've been trouble. When I think of how lucky I was in that fight: He knocked me down and gave me a pretty good licking early. Then when that stuff got in my eyes and I couldn't see, he chose those rounds to coast and catch his breath. I was able to stay close and bluff him for three rounds. Then when he had his breath I could see again and I was able to catch him in the 13th." "You know," Cannon said, "I think the toughest puncher you ever fought was Carmine Vingo. He leveled with a right hand." "Right," Rocky said. "Walcott knocked me down and Moore knocked me down but they didn't hurt me. Vingo hit me a right hand and I blacked out but didn't go down. Just fell into a clinch. "When Weill made the match he told me, 'I've got you in Madison Square Garden.' I said, 'good, when is the fight?' He said, 'this guy is no sucker.' He said. 'I'm afraid of it, it's a tough match. But stand up for me this time, and we'll do all right'." Rocky put Vingo in the hospital. Now lunch was finished and he rose to go, shaking hands. "Where are you staying?" Shire asked. "The Pierre." "The Pierre?" a fellow said. "I remember?" a fellow said, "I remember when you and Allie Colombo were happy in the YMCA." "You go in with Patterson." Toots said, "and you'll be back there." https://imgur.com/splXkGj https://imgur.com/fP82oM5 https://imgur.com/NcNF5Rd
Jackomamo, this is a superb post! A great story, entertaining & brimming with historical details. Rocky was hit the hardest by Vingo & blacked out on his feet? Carmine was 6'4", 179 lbs., & barely out of his teens. I wonder if he did not run into Rocky if he could have gained weight & been great? We will never know. But sluggers are favored over swarmers, Marciano won fair & square, despite the tragedy.
Basically, we have about a 35 year old Swarmer/Pressure fighter, with a bad back, after a 3 year layoff. I would expect to see Marciano mostly standing around looking for one big punch, with his constant pressure style a thing of the past. Patterson would probably be a little bit cautious in this and win a decision over the shell of The Rock.