Wladimir Klitschko is now the greatest heavyweight who ever lived, according to Boxrec.

I think it was 10. I remember looking a few months ago in relation to another thread. But it’s not important.

None of those remaining fights showed us anything more.

 

The fact that Fury and Joshua are already up there is amusing.

 

Glass-chinned Wlad was never KO'd with a single punch, which happened to Lewis twice. The Mercer fight was so close as to be a virtual draw and in reality rather than your fantasies, Lewis went the distance many times against considerably inferior opposition. Being effective against large high level journeymen/fringe contenders like Grant, Akinwande and Biggs is irrelevant because none of them had close to Wlad's level of skill or power (yet Lewis was still at times outboxed and KO'd by far lesser fighters). As Lewis came forward he could be smashed by a jab and contained or caught with a hook and KO'd. Vitali had a better chin than Wlad and was less cautious but Wlad had more to his overall game and Vitali's style was far more effective against short, stubby fighters than big men who had the reach to catch him as he leaned back with his hands down. Lewis was more aggressive and versatile but Wlad had better footwork, speed, balance, co-ordination, accuracy, power and a superior jab. This is why Steward, who actually trained both and wasn't a fanboy on the internet, said that he wasn't able to predict who would (generally) win between them. In his mind they were on the same level of overall ability, whereas he placed Tyson and Holyfield on a level below because they were smaller.

Obviously you are going to favour Lewis against anyone because he is your favourite fighter and you essentially worship him, so you feel gratified by fantasising and making assertions which can conveniently never be tested. I do not know why you are a Lewis fanboy when you are an American and he is Jamaican/Canadian/British or whatever he is. You would think that being from America you would favour Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe or one of the others. Maybe you are embarrassed by the relative lack of quality of American heavyweights since the 70's. In any case, we can speculate about retired has-beens like Lewis and Wlad but our fantasy matchups will just remain that. An actual test of our knowledge and predictive powers happens when contemporary fighters share the ring and our differing claims are appraised by reality. If our predictions and claims turn out to be rubbish, we lose credibility. Who do you have winning AJ-Fury again?

 

Lewis got KO'd by 2 opponents but only once was it a good call for the ref to stop the fight. In the Mccall fight he was waved off despite the fact that he got up and looked at the referee in the eye and protested afterwards. In the Rahman fight he got sparked out but he was overconfident in both fights and didn't see the punch coming which is known to affect a fighters punch resistance. In both rematches with said fighters, Lewis destroyed them to clear any doubts. Lewis was also a bit overweight at 253 pounds against Rahman and trimmed down to 247 and brutally KO'd him in the immediate rematch. Klitschko got knocked down twice from bum Ross Purity and was stunned to the point where he couldn't defend himself and was getting battered and the fight got waved off. Klitschko never prorested and never rematched. Klitschko got knocked down twice in the first round by Corrie Sanders and got knocked down again within the first 5 seconds of round 2 and got knocked down again 10 seconds later. The ref waved the fight because Klitschko was getting punched around. Klitschko did not protest. And never rematched. He got his brother to deal with both of these guys instead of himself. In the lamon Brewster fight he got heavily knocked down and the referee waved it off because Klitschko took a knee and was extremely hurt. Klitschko never protested.

Lewis has eaten blows from bigger punchers than the fighters he got knocked out by including Vitali, Tua, Tyson, Morrison and especially Briggs, the same Briggs who posseses the most early round KOs in heavyweight history. This points to the conclusion that Lewis only had bad punch resistance when he's overconfident and isn't focused. Lewis went the distance with inferior opposition than himself but that in of itself does not mean he couldn't knockout Klitschko because Klitschko has been knocked out by fighters levels inferior to Lennox Lewis. In addition to that this inferior opposition could easily posses a significantly superior chin to Wladimir Klitschko. Lennox Lewis had the longer reach than Klitschko and could use a sonny liston forward jab like he did against Vitali and Akinwande to press forward and when Klitschko tries to clinch with Lewis like he does with every one, Lewis could unload short hooks and uppercuts in the pocket like he did against Mercer, Vitali, Holyfield, Grant, Akinwande and multiple other opposition. Mercer had a better chin than Klitschko and could fight on the inside better which is why that fight went the distance.

Lewis and Klitschko are both elite fighters on the same level overall. nobody is denying that but styles make fights. Steward has said already that while Wladimir is more talented, he isn't more skilled and he has claimed Lewis was his best heavyweight because Lewis was more versatile and showed his talent in the ring, wharas Wladimir held back and was mentally afraid to pull the trigger until Steward yelled at him.

But lets put this aside. I have Anthony Joshua as a slight favorite and predict him to win via late TKO

 

It doesn't matter if Wlad was never knocked out with a single shot.

He was knocked down 12 times in his career.

He lost to 3 B class fighters without avenging them all.

He had to hold on to Povetkin for deal life as he was so cautious.

He suffered a 3 knockdown scare against Sam Peter.

He was extremely vulnerable.

He was not a better HW than Lennox Lewis, and he blew any chance of fighting Lewis in his own career by losing to Purrity and Sanders.

Lennox would rightly have been made a significant favourite over any version of Wlad.

You can try and spin the statistics however you want. It won't make a difference. Lennox was just superior.

 

Haha!

Tooled by Fury. Scared to throw punches. Blantant cheating before and during the fight.

Bounced off the canvas by green AJ.

Iced by fat late 30s Sanders. Had to get big bro to finish the job.

Out manned by journeyman Puritty.

laughable excuses after once again being out manned by Brewster.

Should have been DQd against Povetkin.

When champion went on a laughable defence run of

Mormeck
Thompson
Wach
Pianeta
Povetkin (should have been DQd)
Lepai

What a joke!

 

If someone wish, he might " make " any fighter's resume look bad. I know that you also with intent did not had mentioned Pulev in your list because he is last boxer who had fought for title vs A.J. If you had mentioned Pulev, your narrative about weak era : Klits era and good era: modern era had failed quickly.
38 y.o Wlad had fought then undefeated 33 y.o Pulev with then 20-0-0 pro fights record.
A.J last fight for title defense was vs 39 y.o Pulev.
Interestingly is also to mention the same Wach: 2012: he was undefeated with 27-0-0 pro record and he was not smaller or lighter than Wlad, he also was younger then Wlad.
Okey, Klit's critics narrative is clear: bad era, weak opponents.
If Wach was so bad, why in 2019 th Whyte had fought vs Wach? Modern era should be better era. Why the same boxers are fighting?

If about Povetkin, a lot of modern highly ranked boxers had fought not only vs Povetkin's over the hill versions, also with boxers already beated up by Povetkin.
Still som from them appeared enough good for modern boxers to fight with: Takam had fought Povetkin and years after this vs A.J.
Both of them had won vs Takam in 10 th round.

Chisora too is cool example from Klits era: he had fought vs 40 y.o Vitali and vs Haye, later appeared that he was enough good for Haye, Fury, Whyte, now also for Usyk, Parker to fight with.


Real evidence how " bad or not bad " Klits era was if compare with modern era.
If about Chisora, best performance vs Chisora had ____________Haye, he stopped him in 5 rounds.

 

Wlad Klitschko isn't the greatest ever imo, but taking everything into account, I'd say he's one of the top dozen or so heavyweight boxers there's ever been.

 

Lewis was on bambi legs after getting up from the knockdown in the 2nd round, almost falls back against the ropes, then stumbles into the referees arms. He hadn't recovered sufficiently and would have got brutally KO'd if it had been allowed to go on. It was a good stoppage, Lewis complaining just shows he's a bad loser/doesn't know when he's beaten, much like Wilder. McCall was also a drug user who had an emotional breakdown in the rematch and refused to fight, calling this gift win a "destruction" after Lewis was legitimately destroyed in the first fight is just fanboy talk. "Avenging" losses to the fringe contenders who obliterated you doesn't take the losses away. Even so, no heavyweight who had 50+ genuine (200+ lbs) heavyweight fights has had fewer unavenged losses than Wlad in boxing history. No one would claim that Lewis was worse on average than McCall or Rahman but these losses exposed clear vulnerabilities. Wlad's loss to Purrity (who had one of the hardest chins of all time) was due to gassing in a fight he was totally dominating. Foreman was knocked down by and lost to featherfists Ali and Jimmy Young but everyone with a modicum of knowledge and honesty attributes this to Foreman's suspect gas tank and poor pacing, not a weak chin. Corrie Sanders' victory was marred by three headbutts which he hit Wlad with as he was punching. Wlad's collapse in the Brewster fight was due to him being drugged, he was rushed to the hospital afterwards and it was discovered he had elevated blood sugar levels.

I don't doubt that Wlad and Lewis could hypothetically KO each other as both were taken out by far lesser opposition and I also don't doubt that they would often if not usually go the distance as they both went the distance 8 times against inferior opposition (which says a lot in Wlad's favour as he had 1/3 more fights and was often criticised for being "too cautious"). Lewis had his last fight at 37 while Wlad went on fighting at elite level until he was 41. At 39 years old, Wlad had 64 wins and three loses compared to Lewis's career record of 41 wins, 2 losses and 1 draw. If Lewis had another 23 fights in his career, with all of the associated wear and tear, the likelihood is that he would have had more losses than Wlad, possibly several more. The fact that Wlad had only 3 KO losses in his 68 fight career up to being 41: one due to gassing late, another at least partially due to headbutts and the other down to him being drugged is not evidence of a weak chin but a strong chin and if not a strong chin, then excellent defensive skills against the biggest and hardest hitting heavyweight opposition in history up to that point. Klitschko's KO ratio against the biggest and heaviest heavyweight division of all time up to that point is also superior to any heavyweight in history: Briggs having the most 1st round KO's against ex-cruiser cans is not evidence that his punch power is on the same level as Klitschko and every fighter you mentioned, including Lewis, lacked Wlad's level of skill, which Steward explicitly stated: "the best talent between the two, all the way around skill and coordination now that he’s learned got his footwork down, is still Wladimir." Steward claimed in 2011 that Lewis was his best heavyweight unless Wlad surpassed him but this was just over halfway through Wlad's 11 year title reign, so it's inconclusive whether Steward would have regarded Wlad as greater than Lewis by the end of it. Wlad lost to Fury but Steward himself predicted that Fury would be this era's dominant heavyweight:

"To be heavyweight champion of the world, you have to be a mentally tough guy. I just think he [Fury] is too big, naturally talented, big and tough...Once he settles down on a solid training program, whichever way he gets into it – it’s just boxing – with his personality and his physical size – it’s a big, big, big, big factor in boxing. After Wladimir [Klitschko], he’s gonna be the next dominant heavyweight.”

You severely underrate Fury ("Ali punched harder", "old Pulev moves faster", "6'5 is the eternally best height for a heavyweight") because you, an American, love Lewis for some reason, which is why you create scenarios in your head where AJ (Lewis's bodyguard) KO's Fury. It's classic wishful thinking. If it turns out that Fury is the superior fighter and AJ doesn't have a decisive stylistic advantage as you claim, you will have egg on your face and your other claims will be taken less seriously as a result.

 

Whether you like it or not Lewis delt with Mccall with ease in the rematch, to the point where Mccall mentally broke down, its just the reality of the situation. But if you're too ignorant to accept that there's also the case of Lennox Lewis loosing to Rahman because he was overconfident and then having an immediate rematch with Rahman and destroying him, clearing any doubts.

Ironic because Wlad got destroyed 3 times, regardless of gassing. If you want to make his chin look better by claiming his inferior gas tank led to his punch resistance to weaken over the fights then that doesn't explain why Samuel Peter punched him around the ring. Knocking him down twice in the 5th round. He survived hypejob Peter but the reality is his punch resistance isn't good. He gets up a lot which shows he has ok recovery abilities but in terms of pure punch resistance, it's poor. He has been knocked down many times. And the likes of Oliver Mccall would easily be a top 5 in Klitschkos era, possessing wins over Larry Holmes, Henry Akinwande, Bruce Seldon, and TKO'd Maskaev far quicker than Samuel Peter did.

Ross Purity has one of the hardest chins of all time ? He got knocked out 3 times and Klitschko fought at the elite level for a long time because he fought in a weak era and had far less wars, but then again you have claimed in the past that Alexander Povetkin is better than prime Evander Holyfield so i should take most of your serious statements with a grain of salt. Saying Usyk is better than prime Ali is one of them. And to claim Corrie Sanders has higher KO power than Shannon Briggs is inherently false as quick research reveals Briggs has fought and KO'd more SHWs throughout his career including a multitude of big men from the 90s and his KO ratio is significantly more. Lennox Lewis himself claims Briggs hit him the hardest and Lewis himself has sparred with Corrie Sanders.

The fact that Lewis has easily taken hits from bigger punchers than the ones that KO'd him such as Briggs, Tua, Vitali, Morrison etc points to the conclusion that Lewis could take punches better than Wladimir when he was 100% focused like he was in both rematches against the fighters that KO'd him. And Steward himself said Wladimir is more talented but gunshy and is mentally scared to take the fight to his opponents until Steward yells in his ear to go for the knockout. Lewis was able to force a dogfight at will and can easily outwork or KO the gunshy Wladimir. This is the reason Steward doesn't know who would win between the two, as talented and skilled as Wladimir was, he avoided dogfights and clinched for dear life all the time. Lewis would fire uppercuts and take his head off if Wladimir tried to clinch. Boxing is about the mental aspect as well, not just the physical. This is a common knowledge

Same to you. If it turns out Aj beats Fury, your claims will be brushed off

 

Was not my favorites by any means but
He was a champion who reigned ten years. Yeah there is this and that but it is still impressive achievement what history will remember

 

You have highlighted Manny’s comments from 2011.

What did Wlad do after that which would have changed his opinions?

He fought cautiously against Haye.

He beat B and C level guys.

He fought an awful fight with Povetkin.

He fought super cautiously against Fury where he couldn’t let his hands go.

The only thing he did which was very impressive was putting up a game effort against AJ.

 

Klitschko is overrated. Skill wise he is on the same level as Joe Bugner.

He owes his successful run of title defences to his size which he used to drape all over his opponents back. He had to produce a performance that can't even be classed as boxing to beat Povetkin who is his best win.

He gets praise because of what he looks like and where he comes from. Any other type of boxer who performed like he did would be despised and hated on this forum. .But Klitschko has that EE privilege so he gets a pass

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