Is James Toney an ATG?

An excellent fighter. COULD have being an ATG but I don't rate him as highly as some.

 

Of Course he IS.

Why wouldn't he be???

this is the problem I have with what the Definition of Great or ATG has Become...

IF a Fighter is Great, he IS Great, it doesn't matter the Achievements Held, Won or Lost, if their great fighters, their Great, and forever

Toney is - as good, better or fit for ANY MW in History... So WHY would he Not Be Considered as an ATG???

 

I think he’s at least hall of fame worthy. Guy was never stopped in 90 or so fights. Fought most of the best men of his era. Beat names like Nunn, McCallum, Barkley, Williams among others. And won belts in 3 or 4 divisions.

 

yes

 

Don't forget Jirov and Johnson.

Toney is a lock for the HOF, borderline ATG

 

You’re right and I agree. In addition to beating some great names and champions the guy also beat a ton of ranked contenders even if some of them weren’t that well known

 

yes, I remember the RING ranked him in the Top 100 ATG some years back

 

Depends what one means by "ATG." I've seen a hundred different definitions of that term, some real head-scratchers.

 

Yes.

 

I think he is although he certainly had the talent to have had an even better career. Aside from his natural ability as a fighter, you won't find to many fighters that have had a 30 year pro career without ever being knocked out. It's even more remarkable that he fought from 160 all the way to heavyweight in an era of giant heavyweights.

 

Not an ATG in my book but good enough for the HOF.

The guy ate himself out of his proper division and spent the entire second half of his career as a mid-level heavyweight.

 

I guess it's semantics to some degree (as much as I don't want that to be the case) but greatness for me is about achievement. So someone may have great talent but that doesn't automatically make them great. An ATG has indelibly proven his greatness by what he has accomplished throughout his career.

How much consistency plays a part in your view of a fighter's greatness is also a factor. Toney had his years in the championship wilderness ('95 to '02) and had he never picked up another strap at cruiserweight it would be a lot harder to argue for him being an ATG. That title win, though, followed by his win over Evander may have tipped him over the edge into true greatness.

 

Considering the skillset and how natural he looked at times in the ring, I think his lack of discipline and some inconsistencies in his record make some people underrate him due to perhaps an unconscious bias towards the sentiment that he ironically was a wasted talent.

Had he beaten RJJ in their fight, this would never be a question; it would be virtually certain that everybody would rate him as the best of the pre-LHW 3 of their generation (B-Hop, Toney and RJJ).