Unjustified criticism of Fighters.

Anything that Teddy Atlas has to say about Mike Tyson

 

Why on earth would you put me on ignore ?? ROFL

 

If that moron has you on ignore, consider it a complement mate.

 

"Greb would kill Monzon."

"...but Khan was dominating until the third round!!"

 

This is not the only forum I've been to. You have no idea what I've read. So the irony here is that you're the one whose actually talking out of your ass.

I've lost count of how many Foreman threads I've seen where people claim he should have fought Ruddock/Bruno/Smith etc as if Holyfield, Moorer, and Morrison were far easier opponents or something. It is an incredibly stupid criticism with an ounce of context and 5 minutes of research into that era.

 

The criticism is that he should’ve fought guys on that level instead of Coetzer, Cooney, Savarese...the list goes on. He did take the title shots (against two undersized champions from the time), which is fine, but the rest of his comeback resume could easily be classed as filler.

 

So he should have jumped straight back into facing well know established fighters after being inactive for several years and being in his 40's? Because that turned out so well for Jefferies, Louis, etc.

The criticism is dumb either way. It was smart of him to pace his come back and work his way back up into contention. He not only became champ, he has his finances and mental faculties intact. Doubt he would be the same if he took half a dozen soft touches and then fought Ruddock, Bruno, etc in epic wars until he got a title shot.

 

I’m not talking about taking 10 or 15 tune up fights in the 80s. I’m talking about how In the nineties he only fought two guys in the top ten, and those were title shots.

Sure, it worked out for him, but it’s also why he doesn’t deserve a top 5 spot in the 90s.

 

Lewis had a glass jaw. He redeemed himself of his two KO losses and took punches from some heavy handed hitters like Vitali, Holyfield, Tyson, Tua, Golota. Hardly a glass jaw.

 

3 guys in the top 10. I see you still insist on ignoring Rodrigues ranking.

Who do you have in your top 5 in the 90's. It'd be Either Holyfield or Lewis for #1, followed by Bowe no lower than #3. Then it gets a little muddy with possible contenders like Tyson, Mercer, Morrison, Moorer, or Foreman himself. Aside from the obvious top 3 names, it's hard to say of anyone besides Tyson was "definitely" above Foreman in credentials and performances.

-Mercer lost to the three of the best fighters he faced (Holyfield, Lewis, and Holmes) then got stripped off his belt for ducking Moorer. His best wins were an older Witherspoon, Damiani, Morrison and Cooper. Lost to Ferguson which ruined his chance to get a shot at Bowe but beat Ferguson in a rematch. In other words, Mercer was very hot and cold with very mixed results and a bit of a front runner failing when he stepped up in class. He had the NABF and WBO belts. Mercer never unified or became undisputed.

-Moorer beat Cooper, Botha, Bean, Smith, Stewart, and Holyfield. However, he lost to Holyfield in the rematch and to Foreman. He has better overall ins than Foreman in terms of sheer quantity but he lost to him so can you really rank him above Foreman in the 90's.

-Morrison beat Thomas, Tillis, Williams, Hipp, Ruddock, and Foreman. However, he was brutally destroyed by Bent, Lewis, and Mercer in completely 1 sided affairs. In his case he beat Foreman but has many very inexcusable losses that he never avenged and got thrashed, and was never a unified or undisputed champ. Is Morrison "definitely" top 5 in the 90's? You'd have a hard time convincing many people.

So who do you have as a lock in your top 5 in the 90's?

 

Rodrigues had been destroyed by Holyfield and was nowhere near a ring rating.

One and two are Holyfield and Lewis in any order.
3. Bowe
4. Tyson
5. McCall (wins over Lewis, Holmes, Seldon, Maskaev, Damiani in the 90s)
Moorer also has a case for 5.

 

That Tyson fought tomato cans his entire career.

Mike Tyson faced seven (7) current or former world champions within his first thirty five fights before the age of twenty-two.

 

I think the Op should have asked for reasons justifying claims-including debunking allegedly unfair critques.
Reznick I have heard the arguments about Marciano before, your case is persuasive even if yuou do not make it here.

But Louis did have slow feet. Although in terms of accomplishments, & arguably pound for pound, he is perhaps the best candidate for GOAT HW. But everyone has flaws, even if the best are exponentially superior to average figghters.

Now Carnera was literally a circus strongman!
But while he seems to have been a top HW, & he played no part in the corruption, is it not true that an unknown number of his fights were fixed?

 

These are all good examples

 

OK, convince me. I recall him pushing Lewis when it was called off out of frustration.
What is the indication that he really did not want to fight anymore & that was all a show?
I am not favoring him/picking tribal sides like many, I just want to here the evidence.