How well would Sam Langford do today?

Joe Jennete was about the same level skill wise as Chris Eubank Jr. . Im 100% serious .

What you see here is boxing at its most crude and basic. A lot of guys a while ago though Sam could beat Louis Ortiz.. Ortiz would blow this mans head clean off

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Pretty sure Ortiz worked as a sparring partner for Jeanette.

 

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In fairness, Luis Ortiz would have damaged a lot of the classic section’s favorite little heavyweights though.

 

I find here a lot more skill and nuances than in so-called "best fighters in the world" at HW today.

 

Just remember that your ability to judge how good a fighter looks from film, is on trial as much as the fighters themselves.

If you think that a fighter looks crap on fil, but the results in the ring say otherwise, then perhaps you weren't as smart as you thought you were?

For example I didn't think that Tyson Fury would get far past Euro level, early in his career, but the facts clearly show that I was wrong!

 

To be fair to you, Fury started improve drastically when he started stepping up his competition.

 

Yes, but I fundamentally misjudged what I was looking at, while I had pegged Anthony Joshua correctly from day zero.

Sometimes you call it right, and sometimes you don't.

Presumably the same would be the case, with fragmentary, and sometimes distorted footage of old timers?

 

Nah, not convinced at all from what I see.
The above clip Dino posted lays it all bare.
The human brain is very good at discerning what is efficient, and what is not. This is not efficient boxing. It's clumsy and quite crude.
That's to be expected, given the time period.
It's got nothing to do with looking at boxing from a modern lens. It's to do with looking at it for what it is. Subtle nuance? I could show you subtle nuance in fights between local journeymen too. And more of it.
Which is what I see when I look at film like this. By modern standards, club fighters. Probably not even quite journeymen.
It's more wrestling than boxing. More grappling, jockeying for position, tying up inside etc. Very little actual quality punching. The inside work isn't bad, but the boxing part is poorly lacking.
And this is the best of the era. The legendary Sam Langford. I can only imagine what your average pug back then must have been like. Gawd above.

I'm not knocking it. These guys were the pioneers of the sport and no doubt a tough breed of man. But they're fairly basic. They're not doing anything special at all.
There will always be those that appreciate the old timers such as this. Thankfully. These times laid the building blocks for all that came later. It ought to be appreciated.
But appreciate it for what it really was, not for what you want it to be. That's just intellectual dishonesty, which is the worst kind of dishonesty.
Eyes don't lie.
So please, stop with the hoity-toity 'tee hee hee you don't know what you're looking at' nonsense.

 

So, if someone has different conclusions after watching the fight, then he's intelectual dishonest or don't know anything about boxing? That's quite convenient approach.

 

Luis Ortiz at 6-4,240, left handed, with his amateur background would be the most avoided fighter in history prior to maybe the 90s, but probably later.

Jeanette and Langford had decent footwork for their time, but as you have noted in your post, nothing they did stands out today. I wouldn't watch them fight, I can see better boxing 5 days a week in the gym. If I was alive in those times, had never seen modern fighters, and I saw the fight, maybe it would look impressive? As it is, it's like watching any other sport on film from over 100 years ago. The only interesting thing about the video is to note how much athletes have improved.

 

your human brain cant discern what is efficient and what isnt ! here are some notes for you .

The reason there were a lot of single shots is every time that joe jeanette stepped in with that jab Langford would have his rear hand in position to block that lead jab and fire off a check hook or counter jab! Also after Langford would parry the jab he would return his rear hand to starting position(just under the heart) so it was in position to fire right after the parry (first knockdown off the fight)

Given that Sam Langford wasnt gonna stand there like a moron in a high guard and allow combinations to fly at him, What was Jeannette suppose to do ? He did the optimal thing clinching after his jabs to keep himself safe wear the body down more in the clinch and wait til separated to go back to 50 50 fighting for said turn.

Also note Langford was able to generate a knockdown in the clinch with a short right hook at around 12 mins 43 seconds. With punching as effective as it can get . He steps in with rear hand to stop counter jabs and lead hand jab retracts the rear hand as he dips to his right (to avoid a counter right in the tie up, then with full leverage behind him he launches a very short right hook that lands on the jaw and drops jeannette. Thats supreme technique right there and the gap to counter that attack is extremely small, you would get your jab parried if you tried to jab him while he stepped and jab and Langford dipped in the clinch to hide his head from any right hands. Please watch this stuff in slow mo or think critically before you assume it was just low level wrestling.

 

You are not seeing anything better cuz Modern boxers do many a things wrong . You think the current product is better cuz the use of high guards and dummies standing there lettting there opponent swing without worrying about a counter. In the above Clip EVERY SINGLE TIME Jeanette or Langford tried to jab each other there was a counter punch. Even more impressive was one guy (Langford) was able to despite an opponent who will counter punch every thing was able to knock his opponent down and all over the ring.

 

There are old timers who do look ridiculous (Corbett) and those who strike me as itinerant fighters who bring their (often self learned) bag of tricks with no reliance on training camps or opponent film footage. They are always there for a paycheck and to promote and preserve themselves for the next check a week or two later. It was just a different world.

But you can't convince me that a man who faces and beats a hundred or more other professionals didn't have the natural stuff to compete at the highest level in another era. The sport just isn't that evolved. Tricks can be learned. Combat willingness can't. Power can't. Speed can't. Beard can't. Toughness can't.

 

Natural talent can't be learned. Great physical traits are there or not. I'm in agreement there. Langford in another era, a more modern era, would still probably be an apex predator.
But as he was there, he'd be quite lucky to beat a ranked fighter today. That's not a knock on him, but a comment more about the times and conditions he fought in.