Would Mike Tyson Be Simply Too Small, To Be Successful Now?

I think that Mike Tyson would have been successful today, even though his parents were not Steroid Sally and Steroid Sam, so that he would have grown to be 6 ft 9 inches tall and weighed 315 lbs. Mike did have natural speed and power, with the same management he had in 1988, he would have been very successful. Also he would have fought very often, not every election cycle not like the loudmouth powder sniffing current champion that fights every election year. I am not sold on naturality as far as genetics go, I was not born yesterday. Eating organic foods does not make these humungous giants, but something in a needle can, the WWE wrestlers use it, weight lifting does not create muscles like that, then pigs fly too.

 

No, he defeated several opponents who were around 6’5” and 225+. As did Dempsey, Louis, and several other old timers. Unlike porn, size doesn’t matter in HW a division. If it did, we would be talking about Fred Fulton and Abe Simon to this day instead of Dempsey and Louis.

 

Tyson's success in today's heavyweight division would depend largely on Tyson.
If he remembers to slip, then punch to the body on the way in, then use his educated feet to change the angle and punch to the head, he will do well.
If he slips, then walks in with his hands up and allows himself to be grabbed and leaned on, he will not.
Even at his best he did a lot of that but he usually didn't need to do it right more than a couple times.

 

Always on the money like usual.

 

This might be the difference between Lewis and Bowe speculatively fighting prime Mike. Steward-era Lewis would quite likely do just that, and he had the jab and uppercut on top of those tactics. The problem with him is chin...I can't see Lewis dominating prime Tyson throughout a 12 rounder, Mike would land (and he was a great puncher with ridiculous, surprising speed). Lewis would probably have to make it into as dull a fight as possible, with a preposterous amount of jab-and-holding, and even then I don't think he'd make it. LL might make it 8 rounds.

Bowe might have had the better chin, and he certainly had at least as good a jab (plus probably an even more powerful uppercut) than Lewis. But he would choose to fight more...and he would get hit more (bad, very bad). Though I can certainly see Bowe lasting the distance, I think he'd get badly pounded along the way for a more than fair UD 12 for Mike. Bowe just plain got hit too much, as great as he was for like...what, a year and a half?

 

I haven't watched the Lewis v Tyson fight in years. My memory from the last time I watched it was that if, in the first round, Lewis had been hit like that by even an early post- prison Tyson, that there might not have been a second round. But my memory has become so unreliable that I might be wrong.
A friend of mine, a long time boxing guy, lived in Las Vegas for years and he saw Bowe and Tyson in the gym numerous times apiece. He said that Tyson was a level above Bowe in every aspect of the game, other than size.

 

The guys around now are generally no taller than the tallest guys Tyson demolished in his prime, they’re just heavier, and in a lot of cases less proven.

I will say it again, it was harder to be both any good and quite that heavy even in Tysons day. A 250lb guy was never taken seriously in that time. Today they have made a new weight class out of what is possible with more readily available information in science and nutrition. And ways to get around passing tests.

Tyson was a real heavyweight. Not a super heavyweight.

The modern super heavyweights is really a separate division now. Talented fighters in their own right, but really only comparable to their own weight class and era.

in another generation it will be possible to have a 300lb weight class of men incomparable to today’s modern SHW. And they in turn will deserve only to be compared with men of their own class rather than what is possible nowadays.

The eras will be defined only by what is possible in that time. An all time aspect should start within its own weight classification rather than on what was not previously possible.

 

I try to not hold it against Bowe too much.
Like others, I think he was just a big, playful kid at heart.
He could have done more, as you point out. But some people aren't mentally wired to keep driving on, once they've reached the top.
The only fight that was on the cards at the time that he didn't get was the Lewis fight.
That's definitely on Bowe and his camp.
It still amazes me how a charlatan like Rock Newman managed to worm his way into the Bowe camp.

 

Though Bowe was a big boy and should have known better, it was Newman who screwed him over on the Lewis fight...TWICE.

It shows just how much of a scumbag Newman was that it was his idea to throw a World Heavyweight Title Belt in the garbage, and how DUMB Bowe was to let him talk him into it.

Bowe showed no fear of Lewis during the post Holy confrontation, and from what I saw he got robbed in the Olympics.

Not to toot Bowe's...uh, horn too much. I think he was somewhat disgraceful in letting himself go when he could have beaten Holy for sure a second time, and ultimately getting beat by a loser like Golota. Just my opinion.

 

Bonehugger & Green fought just to survive,

Many use PEDs, but those who have very large skeletons can acquire the bulk of many HWS.
And many more humans around & competing in the sport means more big guys.
Also no PEDs increase height.

 

In my opinion steroids are still bad for you health wise, remember the football player Lyle Alzado, he died of cancer as the results of the use. That is why I do not pay these so called giants any mind. I never even experimented with any kind of drugs or marijuana, had no use for them. A person can improve their body with good old fashioned hard work. That is why in present times I pay attention to the lower weight fighters. Steroids or Peds should be outlawed, too many lazy diva athletes for my taste.

 

If you will indulge me, let me elaborate on how it works when you are watching his feet and hips.
First, no weight will shift when he jabs. But if you fight like Armstrong, down low and always pressing, the jab isn't the punch that will beat you. You are hard to hit with it; if he jabs down at you, he has just cut his reach substantially, and the only target you are giving him is the crown of your head.
So you are keyed to his weight shifts and you see the weight move onto his left foot; that tips you that a right hand is coming. If his right elbow moves you throw a right hand over the top or a left hook to the spot where his elbow was. If the elbow doesn't move, keep your right hand home and throw the left hook.
If the weight goes onto his right foot, he is throwing a left hook or uppercut so, again, you watch his elbow. In either case you come back with a left hook, or you throw a right hand over the left uppercut.
Some wrinkles...a guy like Quartey that moves a lot of weight onto his left foot when he jabs. First, he won't hit a guy like Armstrong with that punch. Second, you know early that he shifts weight on his jab so you time it- with a right to the heart. Third, you know that after the jab he will be set in one spot and will have to shift his weight towards his right foot before he can do anything so you time that movement.
It goes on and on and seems complicated but if you fight every week and have 250 fights...that is why you don't see such things anymore. And, of course, you are always susceptible to being outmaneuvered by another guy that is skilled and experienced and doing some thinking of his own.

 

Well, yeah, without going through your list too finely, that's roughly the point I'm making. My question being "what is Elite ?"

If HWs and "SHWS" (I'm not sold on them) exist, I'm sure Tyson beat both. And he beat some decent fighters in both possible categories. He beat some 'giants' or near-'giants', at least.
Good fighters.
If he didn't beat an "Elite" SHW, I say he didn't beat an Elite HW either, so size isn't really the issue in that question.

 

Oops. Wrong thread, should be in the Langford thread.

 

I agree COMPLETELY about the health risks Richard.
And how unethical it is to cheat & lie & steal glory & money from honest men.
They are outlawed, but many can cheat.

But as a long time weight lifter (nothing monumental) & observer, I can tell you that many big athletes have the potential to be SHW size naturally.
Others do not, or cheat anyway to get there.