Sven Ottke award

Well, I think stoppage % should be valued carefully.
For example to stop a boxer with 0-10 pro record and 5 fights lost via KO definitely is easier than for example to win on cards someone with let's guess 4-1-2 pro record and these draws guy had being in away corner vs tickets sellers.

To stop boxer who for example earlier not long ago had get impressive beating, especially if few stoppage losses ( not cos cuts ) is easier than to stop some dude who maybe does have 5-5 record and never was down for a count.


Ofc depends also from fighting style and an opponent.

If you have opponent who will outbox you for cards with a glance but is not powerful, you usually go for stoppage to win.
If you are more mobile, more agile and faster than he is and are able to outbox an opponent and he is slow but hits hard, then you might pick up to keep suitable for you positions and distance and just outbox him. Especially if this creates low risk for you and will warrant you win.
If he is vulnerable to counters and enough slow, still commits, then if you go for harsh counters ofc it is different tale here.

 

Well the British trio of Benn, Eubanks and Collins, together with Toney, Jones already increased the popularity of the SMW division.

 

I agree. I read story after story about the robberies but then I actually saw the fights and it wasn't true.

 

Well, not rare cases european boxers are considered as inferior, that they should fight in english speaking countries etc.
Ofc fans prefer winners to be from their countries and in english language fourms & boxers who are not from US, Mexico or U.K usually are not appreciated like boxers from these mentioned countries.
Flowchart is as usually fans and pundits use.

Such flowchart is casual and usually the same. They think: fight in our country in away corner or you " are not good, fought no body etc".
While in reality german boxing, west and east germany was not bad.

The same Maske, DM, they were good and looks that enough smart not to go in away corner vs huge cash cows.
Fans think that only their idols are allowed to be in A side corner and also no problems if they fight only in their home country etc.

 

To be fair, I do agree with that, the point I was badly making really was that for some time after, really the time between the fighters you mentioned and Lacy, was that it was a good division that was not too well known outside of hardcore fans. I think that was mainly because the top SMWs were from Europe
It has happened quite a bit with the HW division for similar reasons

 

Yup it's kinda a barren wasteland between the MW and LHW, similar to the cruiserweight. However a common accusation is that those top European SMWs refused to come the US to gain wider exposure, instead milking their belts with hometown advantage. I know it's kinda unfair, but there it is.

 

US boxers are milking their belts in US using hometown advantage as huge tickets sellers vs away corner opponents.
They are not accused by using hometown advantage.

Cruiser always was different division and boxers had traveled around the world.
US boxers, european boxers.
Cunningham from US get his world title in Germany or Poland ( don't remember ) via decision win vs polish boxer. It was IBF World Title.
Tabiti from US get title fight vs Dorticos in europe after he defeated 23-0-0 boxer in Russia via decision.
Dorticos get one from these belt in Russia and title fight vs Gassiev for 2 belts in Russia.
Next title fight he won exactly in europe for IBF World title vs Tabiti.

Then there were enough CW boxers who had fought in U.K, US + a lot different countries.
Glowacki : both world title fights he had won he had on foreign soil : US and U.K while he is from Poland.
Poland looks that was not lucky place for his title fight, he lost vs Usyk by UD in Poland where he was tickets seller.
Then these boxers like Usyk, Briedis, they too had enough fights not in their home country. Including US, U.K, Russia.

CW looks always was more international division, actually US and UK boxers had success in europe, european boxers had success in U.K, US, Russia.

 

Let's face it, the US is indeed the center of international boxing, the big money fights are there, lucrative contract deals are there, the majority of HOFers made their names by fighting in the US. Muhammad Ali, Tyson, Floyd, Manny,... they all made their names in the US and together with it, fame and money. Hometown decision and crooked refs are everywhere, US and EU, that's not the point.

 

Well, let's face it. These boxers, for example the same Patterson, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, DLH, Ward were already with exposure in media before they had turned into a pro ranks because they were Olympic medalists. Such kind of medalists already are mentioned in some media: sport journals, regular newspapers, their names had been mentioned in radio and TV.
Each promotion is happy to have boxers with such media exposure, more than this: internet media and websites even 10 years ago had lesser effect than today, not alone to compare with situation in 2000 th etc.

Now, some countries too had boxers with such achievements and why not to have these for local business and to have them into huge tickets sellers in their country?
All world is approx the same.

For example I do know that deck is stacked in every thing in behalf of tickets seller. Doesn't matters where it is: Germany, U.K, U.S etc.
If fighter is A side lad in one country, why he should be B side away corner lad in another country?

Today, yeah, ppvs sales are more huge in US, still this is more noticeable during covid era.
Live gates income and sponsorships deals might had been not bad also in european countries.
Then also $ for broadcasting rights from media.

ppv model is relatively new model.

Again, why in europe promoters loved pro boxers with international achievements in amateur ranks?
Ppl in europe are cautious, they does know that pro records might be padded and sorry, if they had watched worst level club fights not at least medium level club fights they might assume that nice looking pro record might be racked up with such opponents: absolutely walking boxing bags, not even close to low level bums level.

There: if you have boxer who had boxed with everyone he had been given to fight with, including on foreign soil and had some medals at international level, ppl more trust that this boxer knows what he is doing.
Especially if he had boxed with internationally proven boxers, like am stars, superstars.

To sell such boxer is easier.

The same Maske in Germany, he was former world class amatuer superstar. Including some damn notable wins in am ranks vs notable boxers. Maske amateur resume for sure not worse, even if not a bit better than Usyk's resume.
This Maske during first 2 years in pro ranks had 14 fights ! including in US, U.K and France.
When they needed very huge tickets seller, they placed him to fight only in Germany.
He was not someone about who you might tell " who he had beat ?" With names on his amateur resume alone was enough to prove that he is legit world class boxer.

Then if about the same Ottke, he had fought vs the same Maske and Maske in Germany was like DLH in his best period in US.
Ottke ofc was very experienced not only with this fight alone, 3 fights vs Hernandez had gave him not less experience than if you had 3 fights in am ranks vs Loma, Hernandez resume is not worse than Loma resume in ams, a little bit better than Loma resume in ams.
Bunch with internationally proven boxers are listed in his am resume, everyone easily might check up this.
It is not possible to fake or hide very high level amateur championships and tournaments results. They are public and while not have high interest form casual fans, it is very easy to check up.

Also about boxers popularity, for example, some boxers had a lot of benefits from moving to US.
For example GGG, looks that he was marinated by germans and this yeah, even if he did not had these fights vs Canelo who waited until he was older to pick him to fight with, still was most likely enough income etc.

Some boxers like Valuev, sorry, he today is more well known than Wilder for example and no one cares about forums there.
He had fights in 12 countries, including Australia, South Korea, Japan, Switzerland, not only Germany and U.K & US.
Likes he or not, looks that he had not bad attention and income.


Of course we all do know that in pro boxing a lot matters your origin and this is real life.
If Ottke, Usyk, Loma were from US they had been hyped up till heaven not only in this forum.
While yeah, looks that some weight classes are not interesting in US.
Cruiser.
Last fights Dorticos and Tabiti had in europe, in boxing mecca US they looks that yet did not had 1 one single fight after WBSS .

US is obsessed with prhase: this is puny cruiser weight.
Small dudes, larger than bunches with notable US HW boxers.


Excuses for US origin boxers here too are more appreciated.
Belts milking especially.
I really might make some nice posts about pro boxers in US who are milking belts with a glance or had milked belts.
Sadly from these boxers 2 boxers likes me and I will think twice before point at them.

 

This is the part I disagree with

It wasn't a barren wasteland during that time.
This is a thing I find with many pro American boxer posters. If it is not hyped or American based they often tend to discredit.
Jones and Toney spent more time at world championship level at smw than mw.
Now when they were active they were highly rated p4p. During that time Toneys smw resume wasn't overly great.
After smw Toney went to CW not long after which is a division only a similar age to smw.
The top European SMWs didn't need to go to America because they had beaten the top American/ American based SMWs around that time ie brewer, Mitchell, sheika, g Johnson, Tate for example. All decent SMWs at the time but they weren't highly rated because the European SMWs were very good

I've read it on here before how I'm told that the top American athletes don't go into boxing which is why HW hasn't been popular in America, which seems hard to believe American has over 200 hws, when say Britain alone has I think under 50

 

I think one thing I notice is that (and in not speaking for everybody) from what I see on here is that I find Europeans tend to follow boxing and all boxers, just big fans of the sport, where I tend to find from conversations on here that the argument seems to be if they don't fight in America, then they seem to not be noticed as much, thought of as not as good and don't seem to be in the publications etc
In Europe I find all boxers are appreciated whether they fight in Europe or not
With that in mind there would be a significantly bigger audience for American based fighters

 

Possibly a good similar example to what you are saying....
Chris John was apparently massive in his home country. I read he was a major star.
He had many impressive defences and beat Juan Manuel Marquez. He didn't have to travel abroad to make that fight either. He was a star in his home country yet he didn't seem to get hyped on here and he had a great fw record
John beat Marquez at fw when Pacquiao got a disputed draw at the same weight

 

Harry Greb-like figures. (LOL)

 

I see this is your main points so I respond to it: It's logical to maximize profits, especially pro athletes since their prime years are limited. If you earns big bucks in Germany with little risks then by all means stay there. However, risks and rewards apply too. I'm not knowledgable about EU boxing, but I think purse bids exceeding 10 million dollars are very rare even for top boxers. Joe Calzaghe earned 5 millions $ against Mikkel Kessler unifying the SMW, and that fight is huge in the EU. How much money Canelo earned by beating BJS again? And let's not talk about Pac and Floyd.
Your second points actually agree with, imagine those guys come from US, they would be swimming in sponsor deals right now, since US is well, really good at selling things.

 

As an amateur and pro, he managed to outpoint Michael Moorer, Chris Byrd, Juan Carlos Gomez, Antonio Tarver, Zsolt Erdei, Glen Johnson, Charles Brewer, Robin Reid ...