Sven Ottke award

Anyone who calls Ottke feather-fisted has never seen the Mundine fight.
He was out cold for several minutes.
Brewer,Johnson,Reid and all the others can be considered very lucky Sven didn't go all out on them and settled for a UD.
First ballot Hall of Famer for sure.

 

Was the 1997-2005 crop of SMWs comparable to 1990-1997 (Benn, Eubanks, Collin, Toney, Jones, McClellan, Watson, Nunn) or 2009-2012 (Ward, Kessler, Froch, AA, Bute)? Aside from the 2 obvious champions, of course.

 

He had 17,6% Ko percentage, if he did have dynamite in his fists he should have shown it more often. As for Mundine, faced some big puncher (Danny Green) and survived but get KTFO'd by feather-fisted Ottke, Garth Wood and Jeff Horn, I really don't know this guy's chin.

 

It depends from opponent.
Not all German based boxers had only low risk fights.
The same Huck, he had fight vs then undefeated 32 y.o prime Povetkin at HW, Pov was larger than Huck and if we saw what 40 y.o 11 months old legless Pov did vs Whyte, imagine what he might had did if landed badly vs approx 209 lbs boxer? Huck also had fight vs Glowacki who then was in prime and undefeated, in US and lost attention in fight he already almost had won cos this he had been brutally finished in distance. Then he had prime Briedis in the same Germany and prime Usyk in the same Germany. With such opponents high risk not to travel till cards.
Like in all countries, some teams might more willingly take dangerous opponent, some no.
Euro boxers too were different, vs some of them, despite they were big tickets sellers, guest lad might had win on cards.
some boxers were yeah, cards then ________

 

I referred to the boxer this thread was made, Huck and Usyk are true warriors. Huck got robbed against Povetkin, he should have been 2-division champion. The trend seems to be shifting though, now plenty of Europeans willing to make it in US and many Americans willing to test himself in EU, which is good.

 

I remember when both Calzaghe and Ottke were champions at the same time and there was little to differentiate the two.

They fought basically the same super middleweight contenders. Both defended against Charles Brewer, Robin Reid, Byron Mitchell, David Starie, Tocker Pudwill. Ottke also defended against Glen Johnson (future light heavyweight champ) and Silvio Branco (who was a longtime contender all the way to cruiserweight). Calzaghe beat Eubank and Woodhall.

There was always talk Ottke and Calzaghe were going to unify, but, at the time, Calzaghe was the one who seemed to be avoiding it. Joe always seemed to be offering fights to guys right AFTER Ottke beat them, like Mitchell, Pudwill, Brewer (Ottke had already beaten him twice). Joe tried to make a fight with Thomas Tate after Ottke had beaten him a couple times. Whether that was just perception or not, I don't know.

Calzaghe didn't step up until Ottke retired and then he fought the guys who replaced Ottke. Credit to Joe for doing that. But he didn't seem gung ho for a unification when Ottke was around. Ottke was difficult to look good against.

https://lasvegassun.com/news/2002/apr/18/columnist-dean-juipe-unbeaten-calzaghe-whales-away/

Unbeaten Calzaghe whales away in Wales
Dean Juipe

Thursday, April 18, 2002 | 8:53 a.m.

Boxing fans in the United States are reliant on television to provide a look at one of the sport's supposed stars, Joe Calzaghe.

A native of Wales who has fought exclusively in that part of the world, Calzaghe is a super middleweight with a 32-0 record and a vaunted punch. He's headlining a card from Cardiff to be televised by the Showtime cable network Saturday, with ex-champ Charles Brewer in the role of opponent.

"We've spoke of fighting in the United States for the last 16 months," Calzaghe said during a conference call this week. "One day, hopefully, if the money is right, I'll come over and fight."

With Calzaghe arguably reluctant to leave home -- he was once scheduled on a Top Rank card in Las Vegas but the fight fell through -- it's up to men like Brewer to meet him on his home ground.

"I've been there and done that," Brewer said of going on the road. "I've been in this position quite a few times and I know what to expect.

"If I had any bargaining power, the fight wouldn't be where it is."

Brewer is 37-8 and feels he was victimized by a pair of close decision losses to IBF champ Sven Ottke in Germany, as well as a third-round stoppage loss at the hands of Antwun Echols. He's obviously coming into this fight looking for vindication.

"I have a diverse experience," Brewer said. "I've had to deal with adversity. I know what it's like to win a fight and not get the decision."

But he also admits he may not have gotten this fight if it weren't for the impression that he may be over the hill.

"The door of opportunity opened up to me with a loss," he said. "(But) the label of an 'opponent' goes over my head. I'm a world-class contender."

Calzaghe agreed.

"I think Brewer is a tougher fight than the other three champions," he said, referring to Ottke, the WBA's Byron Mitchell and the WBC's Eric Lucas. "He's a good fighter. I've watched him and I have a lot of respect for him."

Calzaghe, who owns the lesser World Boxing Organization title at 168 pounds and has notable wins over Chris Eubanks and Omar Sheika, said he has given up trying to unify the belts.

"Too much politics," he said. "We looked into it for four years but there's always stumbling blocks."


https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/4613346.calzaghe-to-snub-ottke-call/

WORLD champion Joe Calzaghe will snub any calls for him to take on IBF super-middleweight champion Sven Ottke next year.

The Newbridge star has come under pressure to take on a better class opponent during 2003 but trainer and father Enzo Calzaghe has revealed that one of those potential challengers will not, ideally, be Ottke (pictured).

Promoter Frank Warren has held talks with Ottke's management in London and revealed he would be prepared to take WBO super-middleweight ruler Calzaghe to Ottke's native Germany to fight.

But Enzo strongly rejects that possibility, asking: "Why should Joe go over to Germany to fight him?

"Joe is one of the best pound-for-pound fighters in the world so he shouldn't be faced with going to places like Germany.

"If Ottke came here, Joe still wouldn't be that interested in fighting him because he's in a different class. All the talk about Ottke is frustrating because Joe will be aiming for much bigger fights than this."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/boxing/2377243.stm
Calzaghe takes Tate test

Joe Calzaghe will make the 12th defence of his World Boxing Organisation super-middleweight title against experienced American Thomas Tate.

The fight will be held in Newcastle on 14 December in a show where he will share top billing with undefeated World Boxing Union light-welterweight champion Ricky Hatton.

Calzaghe beat Miguel Jimenez over 12 laboured rounds in Cardiff in August, while Hatton was left stunned when his opponent's father, ****** Smith, stepped in to halt the fight against son Stephen in Manchester last month.

Calzaghe, who has held his title for over five years, said: "It was very frustrating against Jimenez because he was on the defensive the whole time. I know Tate will come here to fight."

He may be 36 but Tate has lost only two of his last 13 fights and they were in challenging Sven Ottke, the German International Boxing Federation world super-middleweight champion.

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/4613658.tate-pulls-out-of-calzaghe-fight/
2nd December 2002
Tate pulls out of Calzaghe fight
WBO world super-middleweight boxing champion Joe Calzaghe faces a new opponent in his 12th title defence at the Telewest Arena, Newcastle, on December 14.

Original challenger Thomas Tate has pulled out with a burst eardrum to be replaced by fellow American and former IBF world title challenger Tocker Pudwill.

It should mean a much easier defence for Calzaghe as Pudwill has had only one fight in the past 16 months.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/boxing/2992148.stm
Ottke accuses Calzaghe

Sven Ottke's manager Wilfried Sauerland says a possible meeting between Wales' Joe Calzaghe is "a dead topic".
Ottke retained his IBF and WBA super-middleweight belts on Saturday night in Magdeburg, after out-pointing England's David Starie.

But the German says he has grown frustrated after several negotiations to line up a bout with WBO titleholder Calzaghe - who was awarded a MBE this week - have ended in failure.

That is the exact message that has come out of the Calzaghe camp, with promotor Frank Warren accusing Ottke of doing his best to avoid a unification fight.

"For us it's just not serious any more," Sauerland said. "Calzaghe is talking about all the people he wants to fight.

"We've been talking about a meeting for three years and all serious approaches have come from us. That's why I say the topic is dead."

The German promoter insisted he has done his best to line up a fight and took the opportunity to aim a jibe at Calzaghe.

"Once (three years ago) the two met at a press conference and announced they would fight each other. But we never heard from Calzaghe or his manager again," said Sauerland.

"Then I travelled to London last year to negotiate with Frank Warren. We discussed details that we were going to have him fight here in Germany before an Ottke bout.

"He needed to get a little more popular here, but it never happened.

"Sven has done enough for his reputation, while Calzaghe usually fights opponents two years after everyone else."

Sauerland is now eyeing a meeting with America's Bernard Hopkins, a fighter Calzaghe has been chasing for some time.

"There's a chance. I'm going to America next week to negotiate. It's a financial question again," added Sauerland. "With Hopkins we could go to the big stadiums with 20,000 people over here.

"Calzaghe is not a name over here. He comes with a title - WBO - which is not recognised. And then you've got Hopkins, who has got three titles of the three big organisations.

"So you're talking about a Rolls Royce and a Volkswagen."

Ottke, who at the age of 36 has won all of his 31 fights, joked: "I'm an elderly person - it's not that easy any more. But to be honest I don't really know what's up next.

"I think I'll do a few more fights but I don't know against whom. It's all still up in the air. The latest I've heard is that Hopkins might move into cruiserweight."

Starie, who has also been beaten by Calzaghe, said it was impossible to predict the outcome of an unlikely Calzaghe-Ottke bout.

"That's a very difficult question, almost impossible to answer, they are both intelligent boxers. I would go with Joe, but I wouldn't put money on it."

Calzaghe is next in action on 28 June against Byron Mitchell, whom Ottke beat in March to take the American's WBA belt.

 

Sure he was. His punching arsenal was very limited.

But in his way to fight, which was moving in and out, in and out, in and out, just scoring points like in the Amateurs, he was damn good.

The only fight imo which was a robbery was against Robin Reid. But all others were either 10-2 wins or close but clear 8-4 or 7-5 wins.

His style was boring as hell, but you cant say he got many decisions which he didnt deserve. Reid was the only exception imo.


I would have loved him vs Calzaghe. It would become a terrible fight, but i see him giving Joe more trouble then Kessler, Hopkins or RJJ, simply because Ottke was runner while the others always wanted to go after Calzaghe.
Ottke wouldnt.

I still see Joe winning but he would look bad on it.

 

Right. It's difficult to pick against Calzaghe, given what he accomplished after Ottke retired. But when they were both champions, Joe didn't want that Ottke fight at all. He wasn't going to win over any new fans, and there was a good chance he'd lose.

Ottke just knew how to win. He did nothing spectacularly. His fights weren't thrillers. Everyone thought they could beat him and nobody did. But his fans sure liked him. He always packed the place. Ticket buyers knew they weren't going home early, that's for sure, so they got their money's worth. (LOL)

I don't know too many people who go back and watch Ottke fights for their entertainment value. Probably just the Mundine fight, because there is a KO. I imagine that's why there aren't any Greb fights anymore, either. If people recorded them, they probably thought "who is ever going to want to rewatch this?" (LOL) Ottke was one of those guys, too. (So keep those Ottke videos LOL).

 

S6 wasn't a strong time at smw but heavily hyped due to a competition

Froch lost to a faded Kessler coming off a loss and struggled with a faded boiled down G Johnson who Ottke had beaten around 10 years earlier when prime and who became possibly butes biggest win after


Below is an old post, can't remember when but you get the idea

Its not stronger at all. Once you remove Bute and Ward there isnt a great deal. Just look at today compared to 05

Back then there was in 2005

1. Calzaghe undefeated world champ (best SMW resume ever)
2. Kessler undefeated world champ (undefeated and not suffering double vision)
3. Lacy undefeated world champ (undefeated with a better resume than most of the current SMWs)
4. Beyer (3 time WBC champ with a better resume than most of the current SMWs)
5. Mundine (2 time WBA champ)
6. Danny Green who became a world rated CW and had a fair SMW resume
7. Siaca (former world champ)
8. Grant (former WBO MW champ)
9. Reid (former world champ, and fighter that looked unlucky against Ottke and who beat Magee when undefeated, who is now WBA int champ)
10. Andrade (undefeated at this time and looked unlucky not to KO Bute years later and beat Steiglitz)

Now today you have

Champ.
Andre Ward whos biggest win is 05 #2 Kessler

1. Bute whos biggest win is who? Maybe Berrio or possibly WBA int champ Magee who Reid #9 in 05 beat years previously when undefeated
2. Froch who has lost to unwell 2005 #2 when unwell and coming off a loss
3. Steiglitz who lost to 2005 #10 Andrade
4. Oousthuizen, who has he beaten thats up there with like some of the 2005 fighters?
5. Bika who is rated so high now by doing what? Beating Manfredo, because I cant think of a bigger win tha he has and Bika lost to 2005 #1 Calzaghe years previously and couldnt beat Soliman at first ask who was clearly beaten on more than one occassion by Mundine 2005 #5
6. Groves, whos biggest win is a MD over 10 and 0 DeGale whos big win was P Smith. groves has only had 14 fights and although doing well in a short career is given a big status for little.
7. G Johnson who was a SMW journeyman who couldnt compete at SMW. Johnson has lost more fights than won at SMW and now with his biggest win of Green coming off a loss and well in his 40s he is a top 10 SMW atsch I could show you the form line of who Johnson lost to and then show you how it compares to 05 but I think you get the point.
8. Dirrell whos biggest win is?? Abraham maybe who cant compete with top SMWs or Oganov possibly. Who has Dirrell beaten for his rating?
9. Abraham. Now it is looking bad. Abraham cant seem to compete with fair SMWs and gets not just beaten but almost shut out, even by Froch who is slow and doesnt have a good workrate. Abrahams big SMW win is Taylor coming off a KO loss
10. Rodriguez. Tell me who he has beaten then?


You would even struggle to say yeah but the fights didnt happen then because they did. Calzaghe beat Lacy and Kessler as well as Reid. Kessler beat Beyer, Mundine and Siaca. Beyer beat Green as did Mundine and Siaca beat Mundine etc.

As you say hype has built it up

 

Ottkes trainer said Sven didn't want to know against Calzaghe when talking in a boxing magazine
I must admit it was a few years ago when I read it and can't recall which magazine
I will see if I can find anything on it

 

César "El Distinto" René Cuenca, former IBF light welterweight champion - two stoppages in 54 bouts. You read that right, two. His stoppage rate was 3.7%.

Change that award's name, pronto.

 

I will read all of this later
It looks an interesting post
They had 6 common opponents with each having fought 3 before the other one

 

Calzaghe vs. Ottke would have been interesting as hell but not very fun. You have a guy who completely eschews conventional boxing orthodoxy versus a guy who embodies it. Ottke would look to cheaply jab his way to victory while Calzaghe would look to cheaply ambush jump-in pot-shot his way to victory, so it would be intriguing to see who could make it happen...but it'd be a long twelve rounds.

Anyway, it couldn't have really ever happened because no way in hell was Sven going to Wales, nor Joe to Germany. It would have needed to be on neutral ground with beaucoup money to attract them, and when they were at their peaks there just wasn't that much casual interest or demand for them internationally to drum up that kind of capital.

 

I don't think that Ottke needed appreciation in foreign countries as ppl might think.
Even in pro ranks Ottke had fought vs enough well known boxers and gentleman had been used as huge tickets seller.
Ottke never was rude bad guy image and most likely he was happy if he had only his amatuer resume alone.

There are just some form all boxers he had fought with in amateur rules boxing ranks wiki pages ;


Aleksandr Lebziak - Wikipedia



Zsolt Erdei - Wikipedia



Jean-Paul Mendy - Wikipedia



Henry Maske - Wikipedia



Angel Espinosa - Wikipedia





Chris Byrd - Wikipedia



Antonio Tarver - Wikipedia



Michael Moorer - Wikipedia





Juan Carlos Gómez - Wikipedia

Ariel Hernández (boxer) - Wikipedia






This conversation is about pro boxing and still, for any one who does thinks that Ottke did not had elite level experience it might be worth to click and read these profiles carefully and with patience.

 

I think you misunderstand - I respect Ottke's skill, was just saying that given the reality of the business side of the sport, with both he and Calzaghe being notorious homebodies, a major event staged elsewhere than Wales or Germany would have been needed to lure them out and, rightfully or not, they both lacked the star power during their primes to headline such an event outside their homes.