Who should Whyte fight in September?

I'm not sure I ever would've picked him to beat anyone in the top ten.

He was massively hyped to make Wilder look like something other than a bum smasher - Ortiz best win is Jennings, only fighter better than he's ever dared fight is Wilder... I don't think I'd have ever been confident backing Ortiz to beat Chisora, nevermind any serious contenders.

 

I admit there was a time I was quite high on Ortiz, but that was years ago, and since then his limitations have become only too evident. He's still dangerous if you have nothing to counter his lunging one two assaults or don't take advantage of his massive lulls of inactivity in between, but I suspect anyone with a decent jab and some pop (e.g. Whyte) would quickly dismantle him.

Apparently Ortiz Chisora might be in the works though, which would be interesting and might vindicate him in some people's eyes were he to win.

 

What I’m insinuating is that It’s beyond ridicuolus to claim Ortiz only wants to fight bums in the same breath as saying that Ruiz is a worthy opponent, when It’s Ruiz who ducked the other.

Ortiz got KOd by Wilder in his last big fight, then made a come back with a KO1 against a gatekeeper, Ruiz got dominated by Joshua in his last big fight and then made a come back with a very tough fight against a former contender. They’re not far apart at all, the main difference between them is that Wilder recovered when he was hurt in the first Ortiz fight, Joshua wasn’t able to do so in Ruiz 1.

Sounds a little like you know Whyte has been reluctant to face Ortiz and are laying up the excuses.

 

I've never really agreed with the narrative that Whyte has been reluctant to face Ortiz.

You've got Whyte who's done nothing but take risky fights when he has everything to lose and then you have Ortiz who outside of Wilder and maybe Jennings has done nothing but take easy fights. Plus you have Ortiz accusing Joshua of ducking him and then when he was offered a huge record payday made up some excuse that his team rejected it without telling him what he was rejecting, which let's be honest sounds like BS.

There's been so much conjecture as to who ducked who, but reality is only one of them has been taking risks and been tested again and again against a number of good fighters. So it's hard idea to swallow that Whyte is the one avoiding the fight.

 

Eh. Canelo fought a lot more quality opponents than Golovkin did, but that doesn’t change the fact that he handed over his belt to GGG and waited until G looked slower and more beatable before facing him.

You can only fight who’s put in front of you.

 

True.

But you can also only judge a fighter on the basis of who they've fought, who they've beaten and who's beaten them (and how they've looked doing it).

If fighters want to be rated, ranked and respected (both in the present and after retirement) then they need to make sure they actually get themselves into decent fights.

It's easy to say certain fighters are consistently ducked, but if a fighter refuses to accept realistic cuts when they're bringing in a fraction of the attention to a given fight they're not being ducked, they're pricing themselves out by refusing to recognise their place.

 

Canelo isn't Whyte and GGG isn't Ortiz their circumstances were quite different.

Whyte never vacated a belt to not fight Ortiz like Canelo.

Golovkin never jumped promoters when mandatory to the a champion to fight another champion who was perceived to be weaker.

While Whyte was mandated to fight Ortiz like Canelo was vs GGG, it wasn't for a title it wasn't even for the mandatory position but the "2nd mandatory position" which to my knowledge is still the only time the WBC have done this. Whyte instead fought a much more high profile and lucrative opponent next in Parker, a former champion, which let's be honest made much more sense at the time than facing Ortiz for less money who was coming off a loss to Wilder.

Yes you can only fight who is put in front of you but only one of them is putting good opposition in front of them while the other is facing journeymen apart from when facing PBC stable mate Wilder. To think the guy taking real career risks is the one ducking simply doesn't make sense.

 

Also factor in Ortiz twice refused to fight Ustinov in mandated fights. Apparently because he thought Ustinov was doping which was never proved and ironically he then twice failed doping tests.

When he was mandatory to Joshua, instead of taking him to court to enforce that mandatory like he was threatening to do, jumped promoters to face Wilder who was perceived to be a weaker champion.

Also after years of accusing Joshua of ducking is offered a massive career high payday which is rejected and comes up with a **** and bull story about not knowing how much he was rejecting and it was his teams fault. Which in terms of excuses ranks up there with some of Wilder's ludicrous excuses.

So we have Whyte who takes risky fights and Ortiz who has ducked Joshua and Ustinov but yeah it's Whyte that's doing the ducking, that makes no sense to me.

 

If Whyte was to fight Ortizn't and land that left hook of his, he'd send Ortizn't all the way back to Cuba without the plane ticket. I quite like the Ruiz fight but, I just don't think Ruiz wants it. Hrgovic is far too risky and after Hunter shat it with the IBF eliminator, I doubt he'd want it either.

Wallin or Martin seem like reasonable, more likely options.

 

I'd like to see Whyte vs Filip Hrgovic.

But he will likely fight some faded old man.

 

Except when he fought Parker wasn’t the only time Whyte rejected the Ortiz fight. He talked **** about him in 2018, claimed that he made an offer to him in the past(offers that noone heard about before), but when Ortiz responded saying that he’d go to UK to make the fight, Whyte backtracked and had the Chisora rematch instead. And if you look up “Whyte/Ortiz/Breazeale”, you can find the Whyte interview where he was complaining about being ordered to face Ortiz by WBC, that he should’ve been ordered to face Breazeale instead.

And I didn’t say Ortiz/Whyte situation is the same as Golovkin/Canelo. I just made a point that one guy having fought more quality opponents doesn’t mean that they didn’t avoid the other, which is %100 true. Both Frampton and Santa Cruz fought more quality opponents than Rigondeaux, yet they still blatantly ducked the latter.

 

Whyte vs Ortiz, please.

 

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Well, you look at boxing like from business only perspective, be more honest that who brings more money in, is god for you?

Fights between some boxers had failed for example due to 1 small thing: one side offers one sided rematch clause and another side does not agree with this because BOTH of them are title holders. End of game and this had happened with a lot of supposed elite level fights.

I will not do name calling or like this, sorry.

If you think that some professional dude with 2 belts is equal with this year's champion in wrestling under Oly rules, then let's it bee.

Place is dignity level and courage not clauses and pro boxing is business here.

This talk is not about said boxers but about real brilliance level.
Not " place " earned with sales potential and fanbase makes someone better fighter.

Get this one: pride for soul is not $ in your pocket with fighting in front of fans in backyard vs away corner kids.

 

We don't really know if Whyte did actually rejected the Ortiz fight though all we know is that it didn't happen we don't know the real ins and outs and who rejected who really. Yes Whyte/Ortiz has been mooted a number of times over recent years.

I do recall the instance you mention but just because Ortiz says he'll fight Whyte in the UK doesn't mean he or his team actually made any serious effort to secure the fight. Ortiz said he'd take Joshua to court but didn't. He said Joshua was ducking him but when offered the fight didn't accept it. He's also twice proven drug cheat so hardly a guy who's word can be trusted.

But let's pretend Ortiz did reach out with a genuine offer back then. What does Whyte do, fight Ortiz or rematch Chisora who many thought beat him first time around and is also more lucrative. What do you think is more appealing, prove his critics wrong and beat Chisora and make a big payday on PPV or fight Ortiz who only the hardcore fans know and who offers less money than a lucrative all British clash? You can see why Whyte chose Chisora over Ortiz. Now that's not Ortiz's fault but he'll always be the less lucrative option if he just keeps fighting journeymen and is only known for losing to Wilder.

I'm aware of the whole Ortiz, Breazeale, Whyte debacle. The whole thing was ludicrous. When has the WBC ever mandated a 2nd mandatory? Just seemed like an excuse to try and get rid of Whyte off the top of the WBC rankings without actually securing him a title shot. Even if Whyte had fought Ortiz and beaten him, Wilder didn't fight Breazeale in his mandatory defence until May the following year so he might not have gotten a title shot until May 2020 which of course by then Wilder had drawn with Fury and was set to rematch him. Fact is had Whyte won that mandated fight there's a good chance he'd still be waiting for his mandatory title shot. So him fighting Parker was the right choice in hindsight.

 

Aydamn