Ali vs skilled super heavyweights

Shkor is not in the same league as Lennox and Wlad, it ain't even close

Lewis had a good enough chin. The punches that took him out would have taken out pretty much anyone.

Lennox demolishes everyone in that era, apart from Liston, where it's a 50:50 match.

Holyfield is an all round much better boxer than either of them, and he beats them prime vs prime 10 times out of 10.

Just like Lewis, Wlad pretty much beats everyone in the 50s and 60s. Ali and Liston are the only ones who might beat him, or then again, they might not, it's 50:50.

Ali does not fight like either of those men. And Sanders for example hit harder than Ali. Plus Wlad wasn't in his prime yet.

 

Rahman definitely hit harder than Ali, that isn't up for debate as far as I'm concerned. McCall also probably hit an extra 10-15 % compared to Ali.
And "their so called power" didn't do them any good cause they weren't skilled enough to be able to properly utilize it, not cause they didn't have it.

Ali was slowly grinding down Foreman, who was gassing out, that's why he backed off.

Foreman had a better chin in the 90s. Similarly, Ali had a better chin in the 70s. The extra weight helped them in that regard.

The problem is that when you look at the circumstances in which Ali obtained those wins, they don't look that impressive anymore.
Liston was older than stated, injured his shoulder and took a dive. I still think Ali probably edges him prime vs prime, but Liston puts up a much better display and has his chances.
Ali used excessive head pulling and clinching to beat Frazier in their rematch. And by the time of their 3rd fight, Frazier was almost completely blind in one eye.
And we all know how Foreman gassed out and fought a stupid fight tactically. Again, I think Ali edges him prime vs prime, but I doubt he Kos him if Foreman doesn't fight silly and gas out.

McCall and Rahman have very slim chances to beat Ali indeed. But if Rahman somehow exactly replicates the punch that he hit Lewis with on Ali, Ali also goes to dreamland. He takes Ali out just like he took Lewis.

I am not a fan of his, nor have I ever enjoyed his style and/or fights. I didn't like his overly cautious approach.
However, Ali used the exact same tactics (as Wlad) in his second fight with Frazier.

 

Totally agree.

 

Atm we still don't have complete picture of Joshua, since his career hasn't ended. He might get better or he might not, so it's better to leave him out of the discussion.

As for the rest:

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Lewis never faced anyone as fast as Ali and Ali's speed would pose a big problem. But at the same time Ali has also never faced anyone close to Lewis. Yes, Foreman was close in size and punching power, but Lewis was more skilled, more disciplined and smarter, and could use his size and power and lot more effectively.
I reckon the fight will go down somewhat like this: Lewis sees that it's hard to outbox the elusive Ali, and that's it's very hard to land clean. But after a few rounds where Ali frustrates him, Lewis will also realize that he has no need whatsoever to be cautious, since Ali is a weak puncher and can't really hurt. Then, Lewis will disregard the idea of trying to out-box Ali and will just charge him head on and let his hands go, knowing that there's no way he can loose a punching exchange. After a few charges and flurries where he roughs up Ali and has him badly hurt, the ref waves the end of the match.

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Unlike Lewis, Wlad won't let his hands go. He is too afraid to do that, even against Ali.
This will be a very boring fight. Wlad will use his jab and grab tactics for the most part. He will occasionally also land a good right cross and a decent hook, perhaps even a combo. In spurts, Ali will land some decent punches and combos, but nothing exceptional, since Wlad's power will make Ali very weary and keep him at bay. Wlad will also most likely clinch if he sensed any danger.
The most likely outcome will be

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, but in a somewhat close/even affair, 6 rounds Wlad, 4 Ali, 2 even.

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The most interesting proposition out of the 3. He has a better chin than Lewis and Wlad, but doesn't hit as hard as them, mostly using arm punches. On the plus side though, his punches still carried enough power and he could hit you from far more weird angles. His style was unconventional, which will make him harder to figure out by Ali. In spurts, Ali will have success, but I still see

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being more successful overall and landing more and cleaner shots, thus

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.

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The prime Lewis couldn't knock out the toothpick heavyweight nobody Mavrovic.

 

Had Mavrovic ever been stopped before then ? No LOL so for all we know he could have had a cast iron chin. Terell however has been TKO'd twice in his career. Terell has a good chin but Wladimir Klitschko is a murderous puncher and Lewis is also a big puncher and they are levels above Williams. Vitali in his prime had some decent power, certainly more power than Ali

 

Mavrovic had only one decent opponent (Lewis). Mavrovic proved nothing before and after Lewis.

Vitali ? Who lost to a fat,unprepared,featherfisted Chris Byrd ?The slow Liston type Ibeabuchi destroyed Byrd easily.
Ali was far better and taller than Byrd. But more important the prime Ali never lost.

 

Mavrovic proved nothing before or after Lewis but he had never been knocked out so saying Lewis didn't knock him out is a stupid way to diss his power considering that Lewis not even in his prime murdered Ruddock far quicker than Mike Tyson. You have no idea how good Mavrovic's chin was.

Vitali lost because of a shoulder injury and was ahead on the cards before the injury happened. Byrd did not cause the injury so i don't know why you'd call that a significant loss. Also i think you miss the part where i said i favor Ali over these guys, but they are levels above Terell, and Terell isn't even a super heavyweight, he's just tall. The only SHWs Ali fought were 6'4, 230lb Joe Bunger and 6'3, 256lb Buster Mathis, and Duke Sabedong i guess

 

Lewis was a great fighter. He could give anyone problems. I don't think the Klitschko brothers are on the same level..

 

Well ask Emanuel Steward, the guy who trained both. He's gone on record to claim that Lewis and Wladimir are on the same level. Wladimir just fought in a weak era so they aren't as respected. I think Lewis is better but both Klitschkos not only have elite skills but have a huge size advantage against Ali, though i still favor Ali

 

You just nailed it. Wlad fought lesser competition by a mile than Lewis. Manny had to take the holding tactics to an embarrassing level for Wlad to even stand up against those guys. It was hard to watch. The guy killed heavyweight boxing.
He had some quick hands as lomg his opponent stayed right in his power lane. The side to side movement of a Prime Ali would have Wlad tripping over his own feet. Then you have quickness which is the most important trait in sports. The gap in those areas just too much .
You have a manufactured athlete vs a naturally gifted one.

 

I appreciate you taking the time to paint a picture of how you think those guys could defeat Muhammad Ali. Most people are just referring to height and weight without anything to male it a realistic possibility.
With that said Lennox Lewis wouldn't be able to suddenly turn himself into Jake LaMotta after a few rounds. That wasn't his mentality, Lennox was a chess player , he was measured, intelligent. The first solid right hand Ali landed would get Lennon's attention. Ali peppered guys with flurries and KOs opponents on accumulation. Lewis would lay back and try to time Ali. Perhaps an uppercut. Otherwise he's not an infighter or a mauler.
Wlad doesn't have the stamina to last 12 or 15 with a guy this mobile, fast and busy. Ali would be throwing 5 punches to 1 for Vladimir. Missing so many punches is going to accelerate the process. Ali would be messing with him verbally to. Wlad would be thinkng about using that degree and forget boximg.

 

Thanks.

Actually Lennox could do that, he became more calculated after teaming up with Manny Steward who taught him how to use his heigh, reach and weight better, and most important, how to protect his chin. He also became more cautious after being flattened with one punch, which made him realize that even if he was better than his opponent, he could still be taken out, so he became more measured.
Manny Steward says this himself about Lennox, that he could brawl when he wanted to:

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Look at around the 5:00 mark

First of all, the fight would only be 12 rounds. Second of all, Wlad wasn't a slacker, he always trained well, so he won't have stamina issues. Plus Wlad wasn't moving a lot, he'd just stay behind his jab, he doesn't have to chase Ali.
Ali can even throw 10 punches for Wlad's 1, it does not mean Ali will land. And the verbal abuse only works on stupid boxers or on those that are mentally weak, Wlad doesn't fall into either category.
As I've said, Wlad can just stay behind his jab. Ali is the one who has to be the aggressor here and initiate the attacks. And Ali was never great in that role (watch his fight with Young), he thrived as a counter puncher, hitting back with flurries after his opponents missed.