Mike Tyson had a better career than Larry Holmes.

Bey would have been up there.

 

Yes Witherspoon would have been a decent defense by that time. The trouble was he couldn't get fights with the top guys to really pout himself on the radar due to his fallout with King.

We've scrutinized opponents and wins of guys Tyson defended against (Carl Williams) so lets call a spade a spade - Witherspoon had done bugger all since losing to Smith. Not one win even remotely semi impressive.

 

I beg to differ.

Part of the reason Holyfield was sitting waiting was to build him up and make it a mega dollar fight. SRL - Hearns was managed the same.

Holyfield had all of 6 heavyweight fights by the time he got the title shot.

Holyfields shot was coming.

Tyson absolutely deserved a quick rematch as did Larry Holmes when beaten by Spinks as did Lewis when beaten by Rahman etc etc etc. Your man Holyfield himself got one with Bowe and he didn't reign near as long or impressively as Tyson at that point.

 

No-one is making Page out to be a superior fighter of the era.

Context is everything as i always say. Context in this case isn't good old hindsight it is looking at things how they stood at that exact point in time.

At that point many thought Page had finally turned the corner and was ready to mount a dangerous challenge to Holmes based on how good Page looked against Snipes and how Larry had struggled against Snipes. One magazine headlined Page's win over Snipes as "In the right Place at the Right time?". This was noting Pages excellent showing vs a Holmes that looked to be declining.

I've showed before in here the fight opened at 8-5 i think it was. At that exact moment in time Page was considered a live chance of upsetting Holmes.

Hindsight tells us he remained inconsistent and didn't separate himself. That was not known at the time Holmes walked away from his title.

That's the whole crux of the matter. He was the mandatory must have defense at that exact point in time or the title would be stripped.

 

I love the way you go for the very subtle hit where you think it will hurt, i do it often myself

He may have been straight after Douglas or the two parties may not have come to terms quick enough. You and i will never know, or anyone else for that matter. Holyfield obviously wasn't a mandatory thinking about it. then again he hadn't dome that much at heavyweight yet.

 

That's partly true, and I was the first to mention it here, I think.
Tyson was very active and eliminating a lot of the ranked fighters

But Tubbs and Bruno had dropped from the rankings list by the time Tyson decided to eliminate them.
Douglas was on the list, and it was Tyson who dropped like a fly when he faced him.
Witherspoon was in the top 5, and stayed in the top 5, and Tyson missed him.

I'm not downgrading what Tyson did. It's notable.
But people don't want to see what Holmes did, that's the point.
@janitor cited those lists, and I responded with some facts about Holmes's wins over RING ranked.
janitor even seemed to ponder the possibility that Tyson beat more ranked men in 4 years than Holmes did in 8 years. Which I think I blew out of the water, possibly.
Tyson's schedule was excellent. But there's a deafening silence when it is pointed out that Holmes also was beating ranked men at a fairly similar rate in his prime too. And for a bit longer probably. And without getting KO'd brutally either.

 

Absolutely. Of course he was beaten in far more dominant fashion by Tyson, tho Holmes was impressive as well. The very best of Tyson would invariably beat almost if not every Holmes opponent more dominantly as that was the difference in their styles and strengths. Holmes didn't blow down many houses without first huffing and puffing a bit.

Of course this doesn't guarantee Tyson would outdo him for wins once the quality of the opponent rose above what they both beat. Neither beat anyone from the top tier and it would be fascinating to see how both would go once the quality rose. It also doesn't guarantee who would win H2H.

 

Ok. I hope you understand i just belted thru 16 pages skimming for stuff i was interested enough to reply to so I've glided over a couple of posts too fast by the looks

 

That's the bit i am unsure of too. I just have a feeling Tubbs may have been rated. Hopefully we can both find out.

 

Holyfield was rated #1 and his promoters were calling for the fight. It was the biggest fight out there.
People have been saying "Holmes managed not to fight his #1" ..... but it seems Tyson didn't either.
Holyfield had defeated Dokes and Rodrigues, both rated in the RING magazine top 5 at the time. Holyfield was considered a major talent and was (wrongly) regarded as the only man who might stand a chance of beating Tyson.

I don't even hold this against Tyson at all.
But when people are saying "Holmes missed Thomas and Tubbs, Tyson fought all-comers, the best available, blah, blah, blah" .... well, he fought lower-ranked Douglas instead of prime Holyfield, and lost.

 

I think if you look at the 10 from when Tyson became champ and who he beat and do the same with Holmes Tyson would stand tall. It's absurd that he beat so many of them. Of course that's not a dynamic list but he beat them in a very short space of time and many weren't fighting each other hoping to get that big Tyson payday so i reckon the list stayed pretty relevant.

Yes Tyson getting stopped by Douglas stunts him badly comparatively to others. Off the rails or not he was still young and should have been hammering at a high level for a longer time. Prison stopped any chance of him negating lessening that stain and it's open to interpretation how he would have went against Holyfield and Bowe in what would have been all time ranking defining fights.

If you listen to his most ardent fans he was shyte by this time and never going to get back to what he was was there's that. Of course if a thread about Tyson never going to jail came up i'm sure they'd be picking him to clean up Holyfield, Bowe and Lewis! I'm sure you will really appreciate that one!!!!

 

Tyson only missed Holyfield through circumstance. As I've proven beyond doubt Holmes missed the likes of Page, Thomas, Witherspoon and co by choice. There is a humongous difference and this is fair.

 

Thanks for thinking of me

Tubbs was unranked by the Ring, but he was ranked by the WBA, WBC and IBF. Take your pick, really.

https://pasteboard.co/K7UE8t2.jpg

 

Thanks heaps!!!!

@Unforgiven - there she blows.

 

When the best contenders of an era, are older men who were not the best a few years ago, I tend to suspect weakness in that era.