Floyd Mayweather Vs Sugar Ray Leonard who wins prime for prime

Of course he’d have needed combos.

We have to be realistic here.

Do you think he’d have just ‘pot shotted’ his way to victory?

What normally happens in these types of debates, is:

1. The guys who believe that Floyd would have won, can never actually put forward a realistic breakdown of how they think he’d have achieved it.

2. Anyone who picks against Floyd is accused of being a hater etc.

 

He did. But you have to understand something:

Floyd never encountered an ATG who was in his prime, AND who could also match him in reach, speed and skills.


I watched his entire career. Love him or hate him, the man was a genius. Nobody can dispute that. But you need to remind yourself that he never encountered a guy like Ray Leonard before.

Now you can come back and say that Ray never fought anyone exactly like Floyd. And although that was true, he did fight fellow ATG’s who were prime, and fellow ATG’s who were sometimes bigger, stronger and more powerful than what he was. Which means that he had much more experience than Floyd did at fighting prime, elite level fighters.

When analysing Floyd’s career, you have to consider the following factors:


He had a speed advantage over almost every opponent that he faced.

He had a reach advantage over almost everyone he faced, bar the very odd exception, such as Oscar.

His skill set was above every opponent that he ever faced.


Just look at some of the opponents that he faced:


Oscar:

Oscar was bigger, but Floyd had advantages in skills and speed.


Canelo:

Canelo was heavier and stronger, but Floyd had advantages in skills and speed, and he also possessed a bigger reach.


Manny:

Manny was more powerful, but Floyd was as fast as Manny, and he had a huge reach advantage over him. Manny was also injured.


Floyd sometimes gave up height.

He sometimes gave up reach.

He sometimes gave up weight.

He sometimes gave up strength.

He sometimes gave up power.


However, never at any point in his career did he give up all of those things at once, including being evenly matched in speed and skills. It just never happened.


Forget what he did against Canelo, Oscar, Manny, Hatton and JMM etc.

Look specifically at Ray Leonard as his fantasy opponent:


Floyd wasn’t as big as Ray.

He would not have held a speed advantage over him.

He would not have had an advantage in reach over him.

He wasn’t as powerful as him.

His skill set was different, but he wasn’t operating at a higher level.

Although he had a better defence, he held no advantages over him offensively.

Ray could match his technique, his accuracy, his timing and his overall arsenal of shots.


Floyd just never saw a guy of Ray’s calibre, who could match him and/or surpass him in all of the above departments. And that is where all you fans of Floyd fall short in your analysis and your predictions. And not only would Ray have brought all of the above to the table, he would also have brought supreme confidence, with a huge heart and a will of iron.

It doesn’t matter if Floyd retired undefeated and Ray didn’t.

The only thing that is relevant is how they’d realistically have matched up stylistically.


Ray Leonard would have been a significant favourite in this match up.

He matched Floyd in almost every department, and he surpassed him in many others, which would have meant that he’d have had more avenues to victory.

If plan A wasn’t working, he’d have gone to plan B.


You need to stop referencing victories over lesser opponents, and start objectively analysing how realistically the versions of Floyd we saw at WW, would have matched up with the versions of Ray that we saw at the weight.

 

Because they didn’t have everything else that Ray had too.

 

Great post.

It’s just lost on these guys.

Floyd was a master boxer.

A defensive counterpuncher at WW.

A safety first fighter with hand issues.

He wouldn’t have fought Ray Leonard.

If Ray had’ve fought Floyd aggressively, Floyd would have gone into a defensive shell. And if he’d have done that, he could not have won the majority of the rounds needed in order to have been awarded a decision.

 

Some of Floyd’s are debatable, against lesser opponents.

Hagler gave away the first 4 rounds and stood off of him and showed him too much respect.

It doesn’t matter if Hearns was ahead at the time of the stoppage.

 

They really don’t though. And not the specific versions who Floyd fought.

 

No talking Floyd

 

You’re looking at the specific versions who Floyd fought.

Canelo was young and naive and was terrified of getting countered. He stood off of Floyd and showed him far too much respect. That specific version who barely beat Lara, was not on the level of even a faded Hagler or Hearns.

Manny was faded and injured. He was denied a pain killing injection, and had shoulder surgery 5 days after their fight.

Oscar put in a good showing against Mayorga, but he looked terrible against Steve Forbes after his fight with Floyd.

Cotto had already been bashed up by Marg and Manny.

JMM was an excellent fighter, but never at the weight that Floyd fought him at.

 

They really do though. There’s an argument that Pac rates above all of them. Alvarez is on his way (or already there) to being on equal terms. He’s earned it. The Fab Four were human. Great boxers but I think people get way overblown about the era and their quality as a whole. Mayweather could hang w any of them. He was def more skilled then all of them only argument one had to make is are they to big and strong which is a fine argument. I just don’t think they would be. Can’t speak for Hagler as Mayweather never fought that big.

 

Pac does not rate above Duran or Leonard. It's generous to rate him above Hagler and Hearns.

Alvarez is way behind all 4.

Mayweather is the boxer whose talent gets overblown on this forum. You are one of the worst offenders.

Mayweather wasn't more skilled than Duran and Leonard. The opposite is true.

 

Nobody is making excuses.

You never apply context.

When people give you a dose of reality, you then say that they hate Floyd etc, and that they’re being biased.

Nobody has said that Floyd wasn’t great.

Saying that Floyd would have lost to Leonard doesn’t mean that Floyd wasn’t great. It’s just that the match up would have favoured Ray due to how they’d have matched up stylistically.

Regarding Floyd’s fight with Oscar, you are kidding yourself. There was no schooling. You can’t be serious.

 

Stop with the playground nonsense.

You can’t just claim that everybody who questions Floyd’s opposition and/or who favours his fantasy opponent, is an irrational hater who is completely biased and unobjective.

You can’t just use that as some sort of a defence.

His opponents aren’t downgraded.

They are rated accordingly, simply based on where they were in their careers at the time, and how they matched up with Floyd stylistically.

Floyd never fought a prime ATG in his entire career.

No, he wasn’t more than capable of out pointing Leonard. Because Leonard matched him in skills, speed and reach. And even if it had have been possible, Leonard would then have fought Floyd aggressively like how he did against Hearns, which Floyd would have had no answer for.

It’s not us who’s being biased.

You are overrating Floyd and are completely ignoring how they’d realistically have matched up.

 

Actually he was a lot more skilled then both. Not even close.

It’s funny you pick Mayweather to win a fight and you’re a fanboy all of a sudden lol. Why have any threads to discuss this? I have proof that Mayweather was much better at hitting and not being hit which is what boxing is all about. The best in it’s almost forty year history Compubox proves that. Where’s yours? It’s all opinion and I was no fan boy of his when he fought but if you don’t recognize greatness when it was in front of you that’s on you. I hate Lebron james w a passion but I can understand how great he was. And if someone told me any player would run him out like he was nothing I’d disagree whole heartedly with that.

if Mayweathers talents are overblown what exactly is overblown about him? Please elaborate.

Alvarez isn’t far away from any of them. He’s already up there w Hearns and Hagler. Wether you or anyone else wants to admit it at the moment. He’s not quite there with Leonard or Duran yet.

 

Floyd didn’t dominate Oscar and Castillo.