Mike Tyson .Vs. Sonny Liston

ChrisPontius · Jun 26, 2009

JohnThomas1 said: ↑

Pinky did fight well, but do you think he fought as well or better than a peak Ali would? My point is FAR lesser fighters went 4 ropunds and more with Tyson and Ali's not exactly known for being taken out, let alone early.
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You would think that a peak Ali could last a liiiiittle longer than an old Holmes who had lost his legs. :yikes

Mr Butt · Jun 26, 2009

liston wins 2 out of 3 fights ,not sure but leaning towards liston might change my mind later ,this is a tough one.liston does have style to beat tyson but tyson was so fast and would get inside.going to watch them both later so like i say might change my mind

JohnThomas1 · Jun 26, 2009

ChrisPontius said: ↑

You would think that a peak Ali could last a liiiiittle longer than an old Holmes who had lost his legs. :yikes
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Exactly

I'd expect peak Ali to win, truth be told

Hardly a revelation tho.

moneytheman12 · Jul 15, 2021

fists of fury said: ↑

My prediction is...Tyson by KO in rounds 2-7, depending on how Sonny's chin holds up.

I honestly don't see why this is a bad styles matchup for Tyson. On the contrary, it's a bad styles matchup for Liston.

Let's get this image of Sonny being a hulking fighter out of the way. Yes, for his time he was, but had he been magically transported to the 80's and 90's when Tyson was active, he'd be on the smallish side for a heavyweight.
Tyson regularly fought guys standing 6'3" or more, and weighing 220-240 pounds. Liston stood 6'1" and weighed around 212-215 in peak condition.
Liston's supposedly great size isn't going to impress Tyson at all.

Yes, Liston did have some giant-sized measurements, but a big fist means next to nothing. His great reach would be something of a factor, but then again everyone Tyson fought had a greater reach than Mike did, so it's kind of redundant.

For me, the key factors in this fight are explosiveness, speed and chin.

What Tyson was so good at was his ability to get his punches off first. He could spring forward and land 2-3 punches before his opponents could react. An overriding theme with Tyson's opponents was their surprise at just how quick he was.
These punches weren't pitty-pat either, but hard, fast punches that often took the fight right out of his opponents before they got going.

"The punches are coming in such a succession that Berbick can't deal with them. They're short, powerful, devastating punches..." - Ray Leonard, commenting on the Tyson v Berbick fight.

Another concern for Liston is Tyson's uncanny ability to find the range right off the bat, and his accuracy. Even Foreman, who often belittled Tyson in some way, was forced to comment on how frighteningly accurate Tyson was.
Tyson was rarley hit flush until he neglected the defensive side of his game, and even then his chin held up well against powerpunchers like Bruno and Ruddock, both of whom tagged him with at least one home run.

So basically, Liston is dealing with a guy his own size, who punched as hard, who was far quicker both in reaction and in handspeed, and who punched in combination. Then there is Tyson's pretty amazing defensive skills (for a fighter with that style) which is backed up by a very solid chin.
That's a formidable package to deal with.

I'd imagine Liston would come out trying to establish the jab, to set up his right hand and left hook. Tyson would start very quickly as he always did, and would be the first to land a hard punch. Liston fought some good punchers, but I don't think he fought anyone that could remotely compare to Tyson as an overall puncher.
How would Liston, who almost always enjoyed a size and power advantage over his opponents, react to this?
We don't know, but I'd imagine he'd be surprised and possibly shocked.

My prediction is that even before Liston establishes some kind of jab, he'd be hit with several power punches. Sure he'd fight back, but Tyson's quicker reactions and superior hand speed would see him landing the majority of the damaging blows.
Even if the odd power punch does find Tyson's chin, I think he'd not be hit with enough of them to turn the tables.
Liston's jab will also land, but the only fighter to dominate Tyson with the jab was Douglas, and there were other factors at work there. Tyson fought some pretty good jabbers in his day, and none could make the jab a dominant weapon against him.
I don't see it being the difference between the men here, either.

Liston was a very good fighter, but he fought a lot of guys weighing less than 200 pounds. In Tyson, he's got to deal with a kind of ferocity and explosivenss he's never seen before.
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everything you said is right anybody who said sonny is crazy or trolling he was slow easy to read and defense was bad

RulesMakeItInteresting · Jul 15, 2021

moneytheman12 said: ↑

everything you said is right anybody who said sonny is crazy or trolling he was slow easy to read and defense was bad
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I highly reccomend you watch the Liston fights against Machen, Patterson (both), and Williams (both), then come back and tell me how slow Liston was, how bad his defense was. You won't convince 8 out of 10 people here.

No disrespect intended, but calling people trolls and crazy doesn't go down big around here. Especially coming from somebody new to the forum. You're not leaving a very good impression, my friend. In fact, the way you're coming across makes you seem like the troll.

moneytheman12 · Jul 15, 2021

RulesMakeItInteresting said: ↑

I highly reccomend you watch the Liston fights against Machen, Patterson (both), and Williams (both), then come back and tell me how slow Liston was, how bad his defense was. You won't convince 8 out of 10 people here.

No disrespect intended, but calling people trolls and crazy doesn't go down big around here. Especially coming from somebody new to the forum. You're not leaving a very good impression, my friend. In fact, the way you're coming across makes you seem like the troll.
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crazy blind liar he was slow watch agian with bad defense easy to see this your crazy and blind

RockyJim · Jul 15, 2021

Who has the best chin? How about..."Who's got the biggest heart?" Heart plays into this fight!

moneytheman12 · Jul 15, 2021

RockyJim said: ↑

Who has the best chin? How about..."Who's got the biggest heart?" Heart plays into this fight!
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can heart give speed or defense

newurban99 · Jul 18, 2021

AREA 53 said: ↑

Slipping Listons Jab and coming inside. perhaps would not deliver the same results for Tyson, that slipping The Jabs of other, "non-predatory" Fighters Tyson Met Like Tubbs, Thomas, Biggs, Etc, acheived, Liston would probably Prey for an Insde Fight, Ok Give him a few Extra Inches Punching Room.

Sometimes Mike Does not keep working when up Very Close, (As a Frazier Would) and with his feet often too close together he can be pushed back as Holyfield Showed, I actually Do not have complete faith in Either to Grit it out if things start to go against them to any great degree, Unlike against mobile Boxers who they will, all being well, belive that they can ultimately catch up with and despatch, but in this match, both would recognise the other as a Heavy Density Predator , who doesnt let woulded prey off the hook, but destroys it in Brutal quick order !

Sometimes when tyson feels threatened he seems to up the Trash Talk, But would he Tell Liston he was going to make him his Girlfriend ? somehow i doubt it, i think they both spoke each others language, Liston with looks more then words, and intimidation will not work, this one would have to be won through deed, and is it not beyond the bounds of possibility that Tyson might implode mentally and commit some horrendous Foul ? or liston if he starts to take a consistent Battering might Mentally Fold as opposed to Physically, with the Physical Fold to Follow ? Both are Great "On Top" fighters its when one Slips behind that the uncertainty begins, Tyson would probably be Favoured by the Younger Follower with Perhaps The Older Follower Favouring Liston ? ( I.m Probably In The Middle !)

I would feel that Tyson would be made the overall Bookies Favourite, But in which case would fancy an upset, i think a young - pre championship Liston has the determination to Make Tyson Work and Take him to the Middle rounds, as i can see a lot of clinching and mauling, with each Fighters Bombruns being Sporadic and Short Lived, as Tyson Tires Liston may find His Jab Starts to become much more Effective. once Liston is Comfortable with the Pace, i Can See Tyson Winding Down Somewhat, and as Liston feels his Second Wind coming on, i can See maintaining the pace and Keeping the Action Steady , but steady in his Favour, Like perhaps his fight with Machen, It may depend on how a tiring Tyson keeps it together as to wether he hears the final bell or not, if he starts Stumbling in Throwing Single shots before falling into a Clinch, i think Liston would at some stage catch him coming in for perhaps an 8th Round ko,

Tyson was reputed to be at his best in the Spinks Fight, BUT was spinks really that much of a barometer that night, Mercury may not freeze but Spinks surely did ! so once again Tyson had enjoyed things so very much his own way, But what would happen if this young Man-Child Starting couldnt intimidate his young strong opponent, and started taking his own medicine from the Stoney Faced one ?

If we are talking about A 22 - 24 year old Tyson against a 28-29 year old Liston then Perhaps Sonny could of kept his (Embryonic ?) Inner demons in check long enough to get through the Dangerous early rounds until the Fight Settles down to a pace more Suited for Sonny ? He certainly has the strenght not to be bullied, Their Both Sprinters to a degree, Tyson much the Faster, but can he stay with Liston over a Longer Distence ? Whilst it wouldnt Shock me if Tyson was to Treat Liston Like he did Frank Bruno, i would favour the Upset with perhaps a Younger Liston displaying a Disipiline and fortitude not usually associated with him, perhaps unfairly because of the clay results, but this Sonny was aging and overconfident by then,

The Younger Liston could certainly cope with tyson's Intimidation because he could undertand it, he was after all a past-master himself, but i do have my doubts as to wether the perhap smore all-round Talented Tyson, - But A ManChild in his Acredited Prime, - could hold it together mentally when he finds himself on the receiving end from Liston !

Truth to tell, if they both just cut loose, when the Mushroom Cloud clears it could be anyone on the canvas, Tyson is an instinctual operator, but if Liston comes in behind the heavy Jab, Jams Tysons Attack Signals, puts Static in his Attic, and breeds in Tyson a sense of caution and having to Think before firing, then Sonny could nullify any disadvantage in lack of speed and create the openings and targeting time he requires to unload successfully.

Its easy to become seduced by Tyson on the strengh of his usual unhindered output, but i feel Tyson will not be nearly so effective when he has to operate while nasty Payloads are Incoming. Not from a technical "Boxer" Remember - But from a fellow destroyer

Two Bullies, Two Great "OnTop" Fighters, Man against Man Child

Call them what you will, I could easily of been proven wrong but

I'd Plumb for The Younger "Prime" Stoney-Faced One.
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Perceptive post.

newurban99 · Jul 18, 2021

newurban99 said: ↑

Perceptive post.
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Tyson is on record saying Liston was his role model and idol. I think the only time Tyson went into the ring fearing his opponent was against Lewis. He would have been even more intimidated by Sonny.

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Mike Tyson .Vs. Sonny Liston

ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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Mike Tyson .Vs. Sonny Liston

ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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