Why do people say Usyk is too small for Joshua and Fury but still favour guys like Ali and Holmes?

Probably competitive against some of Foremans opponents like most fighters there were some sub standard ones.... But a 40 Year old Foreman would be to much for Ruiz in my opinion Not the word of God just an opinion.

 

Prime Foreman Destroys Ruiz....Even 40 Year old Foreman takes him out nothing to do with Nostalgia just cold hard Facts...

 

Ali fanatics salivate over his speed. They think it overcomes the superheavies. They pretend speed is the only thing that matters.

By their logic RJJ would have beaten Ali because Ali was slower than Jones.

 

Ali had better fundamentals than Jones and beat Frazier and Foreman no moddern heavy has beaten a fighter as good as Frazier who would have destroyed Jones, Ali was pretty sharp and fast, a little like a heavyweight version of Manny Pac, who handled bigger fighters easily, Ali was simply better than any current heavyweight and had a better chin, even though AJ is a more dynamic fighhter than Liston was, he would have given Ali a good fight, Wilder is all over the place and Fury`s offensive skills are nowhere near the level of Ali`s, Fury`s just a good spoiler.

 

@mark ant

Where was Ali's speed when he was fighting Ken Norton?

 

If you think that Ali's only attribute is speed then you are entirely missing the point. It was the blend of abilities that he possessed that marks him out as one of the best pound for pound fighters of all time. Probably the most important attributes he had was the ability to adapt to an opponent during a fight. You can talk about size and power all you like but when a fighter has the skill, ability, intelligence and speed allied to an iron chin and will combined then it will negate anything else and in fact being heavy and relying on power can become a disadvantage.
Ali beat two of the monsters of the heavyweight division with his blend of gifts so really the argument has to be; what have these modern fighters got apart from size and power? The only super-heavyweight that truly matches up to Ali is Lewis precisely because he did not rely on just his size and power and had an excellent skill set on top of those attributes. Fury has the potential to be great but has only had 3 defining fights so it's difficult to elevate him at this moment in time. A win over AJ would certainly support a case for greatness.

 

We'll see how Usyk does. Right now it seems Joshua might be too much for him, but the Road Warrior ver. 2 is unbeaten and possess superior boxing skills to Joshua.

 

LOL.

Ali had fundamental flaws. His ability to adapt was limited.

He fought Norton thrice but couldn't find a way to outbox him.

 

I'm 100% in agreement Mark. You've pretty much summed up my thoughts on Ali compared to the current crop. There seems to be an obsession with size and weight on these forums and while they may have some bearing, a fighter of Ali's caliber showed time and again that size was a hindrance as you got further into a fight and stamina was needed especially during the era of 15 rounders.

 

So you cherry pick the one opponent that Ali stylistically struggled with apart from Frazier. Norton was a master boxer himself and you only have to look at the 1978 fight with Holmes for confirmation of this. In fact he beat Norton in the 2nd fight and arguably the 3rd fight could have gone either way. What exactly do you mean by fundamental flaws? Ali certainly was a head hunter and his inside game was limited compared to the likes of Frazier but you could say the same of any fighter that ever lived that there were weaknesses in their style. Ali's record and longevity pretty much speak for themselves and you really are grasping at straws in your efforts to denigrate him. I won't bother to respond anymore as you don't really seem to know what you're talking about.

 

@dcr

Frazier himself was technically flawed (poor defence, punch selection). Foreman was crude as **** but his physical gifts let him destroy his opposition.

If Ali was as great as you pretend then he wouldn't have to be gifted several victories.

 

Ali was at his peak in the 60`s, he was pretty quick v Liston.

 

Frazier`s head movement was good and he got off the center line better than Wilder he would have destroyed Wilder with counter hooks because Wilder falls off balance throwing his right hand, Frazier had far better fundamentals than Wilder and was a better offensive fighter than Wallin.

 

Typical. Ali was at his peak against an old man with a shot shoulder, or in a fixed fight.

Liston is overrated, especially by Ali fanatics who want to inflate their idol's record.

Having better fundamentals than Wilder is not a great accomplishment.

 

Liston had a great jab but wasn`t as dynamic as AJ.