Who should rank higher all time ? Norton or Walcott ?

Bivins was a bonafide great fighter at light heavyweight. He was a decent heavyweight in a weak era.

Which doesn't make it a top win let alone a top heavyweight win. It was an 8 round fight which was the stage Patterson was at - fighting 8 rounders. for all intents and purposes it was a light heavyweight bout. Floyd certainly wasn't ranked as a heavyweight. All these wins you are throwing forward for the older brigade are mostly smokescreens.

I'll wait for proof that Satterfield was ranked. The guy was campaigning at 175 and most certainly wasn't ranked at heavyweight and i would hugely doubt he was ranked at 175. Prior to fighting Maxim, in the same year, he had a draw and a 2nd round stoppage loss to guys not in the top 10. Are you just making it up?

Satterfield was not fighting ranked opponents all the time let alone guys that could bang, more fibs. Feel free to list his wins that were better than Ali, Quarry and Young.

Satterfield and Young are not on par.

Of course you've sugar coated it, making mountains out of molehills in his favor.

There's a reason have you ignored Walcott's losses when Norton's loss column is infinitely better than Walcott's.

 

Cobb is better heavyweight than heaps of the light heavyweights you have been mentioning. He would pump the likes of Satterfield. Bobick would beat a load of them too for that matter. He would have been extremely dangerous in that era.

 

Yes, this.

I haven't seen the whole fight but the bit I did see made me think Walcott was edging ahead. Then I was told that this was the part where Louis was doing well. If he did worse and was dropped to boot in the other half, then there's no way Louis won that fight.

Also if I HAD to pick I think I'd take Norton who was more consistent. I can totally see the argument for Walcott though.

 

This doesn’t stand up. Compare 1975-1979 championship level with 1947-51 and man for man they are a fair match.

yet in a similar situation to Norton, Walcott clearly and demonstrably rose to the top.

 

the post war Heavyweight division was no weaker than the heavyweights from 1975-79. Without having to remind you of all of the figures around at that time, I believe you have to know this yourself.

 

with respect, taking onboard the twenty career defeats, the post war record of Walcott shows that from 1945 until September 1952 Jersey Joe had beaten every man he fought with two exceptions, Rex Layne who he fought just once, and the great Joe Louis who many believe he did beat in the first fight. In all other cases, Like Lennox Lewis he beat everyone back. This is a very good record.

 

The second half of the 70's was transitioning for sure but i'd still take it over the period we are talking about.


Joe Louis*, Champion - Muhammad Ali, Champion

1. Melio Bettina - George Foreman
2. Tami Mauriello - Ken Norton
3. Curtis Sheppard - Jimmy Young
4. Joe Baksi - Duane Bobick
5. Lee Oma - Ron Lyle
6. Lee Q Murray - Larry Holmes
7. Jack London - Howard Smith
8. Elmer Ray - Johnny Boudreaux
9. Al Hart - Stan Ward
10. Buddy Scott - Joe Bugner

If we go to the very back end of the 70's -

Muhammad Ali, Champion

1. Larry Holmes
2. Ken Norton
3. Leon Spinks
4. Ron Lyle
5. Jimmy Young
6. Kallie Knoetze
7. Alfredo Evangelista
8. Gerrie Coetzee
9. Ossie Ocasio
10. Domingo D'Elia

 

Uh no.

Rex Layne says a very loud "HELLO" chok.

How many times..........

 

I forgot Rex. Please forgive me. I have corrected that

 

Satterfield was ranked at least number 9 in 53 and possibly other years but didn’t check. His wins also blow away Norton
Holman
Cleveland Williams
Marty Marshal
Bob Baker
Nino Valdez
Lee Oma
Harold Johnson
Elskin Brothers
Oakland Billy Smith

youre just making things up at the moment. Cobb was a D level fighter another guy hardly worth mentioning. Like I said if Norton was so special he should have more then one or two good wins. The latter half of the 70s was weak as any era. You’re the only one sugar coating anything with your fairytales. And like I said I give Norton a lot of credit for his one solid win. I still rank him top 40 he’s just not top 20 like Walcott.

 

All good.

 

The year you chose 1944, did not include Jersey Joe Walcott or even an active Joe Louis. Still, I would pick shepherd to beat Young, Baksi to beat Bobbick, and Ray to beat Bordeaux. Even Brian Londons dad is going to beat Smith. Not bad going. I think the other matches are remarkably fair fights with nobody ridiculously out of their depth.

I would fancy the 1947/1948 top ten to edge the 1978 top ten which primarily is the period when Norton achieved a title.

 

Sure Satterfield was better then the 188 pound Garcia who flattened Norton.

 

At least show a bit of integrity. Maxim beat him 5 years prior to that and what he was ranked half a decade afterward means absolutely nothing. He was not ranked when they fought.

Oscar Ibarra and Oscar Blanquet beat Salvador Sanchez too but we don't hear much about that or see them elevated for it. I wonder why.

Maybe Norton should have went around belting light heavyweights.

"Elskin" Brothers is so renowned you can't even spell his name. 26-10-2 when they fought and recently beaten by someone called Vernon Williams 16-5-4. Ali and Young sure can't compete with the likes of monsters like that. Oakland was of a course a career light heavy.

So much hyperbole and sensationalism toward the older era, as always.

Cobb was not a D level fighter. He was certainly better than some of these plodders you are trying to sell. Jesus H Christ. He beat a respectable version of Earnie Shavers who would bury a lot of the guys you have named. He'd relish fighting guys 170 - 180 odd instead of the likes of Shavers, Dokes, Norton and Holmes.

Fairytales definitely comes to mind and it sure ain't my way. Anyone and everyone who has more wins than losses from the days of yore is simply astonishing seems to be the message.

The latter half of the 70's was not "weak as any era". Your bias is screaming out right there.

 

Well lets pick the year when they both won the title. The 70's is still stronger for me. When you've got the likes of Maxim at #4 it's not very strong. I might do a thread on it tomorrow after work.

Imagine Larry Holmes vs Joey Maxim LOL!!!!

Ezzard Charles, Champion

1. Joe Louis
2. Lee Savold
3. Joey Maxim
4. Clarence Henry
5. Bob Baker
6. Rex Layne
7. Jersey Joe Walcott
8. Jack Gardner
9. Lee Oma
10. Rocky Marciano

Muhammad Ali, Champion

1. Ken Norton
2. Jimmy Young
3. Larry Holmes
4. Ron Lyle
5. Duane Bobick
6. Earnie Shavers
7. Kallie Knoetze
8. Alfredo Evangelista
9. Leon Spinks
10. Gerrie Coetzee