Prime Evander Holyfield will always beat prime Tyson

Impressive on the dips! I used to do those regularly, way better than decline benches. The improvement I made in my pec mass from them was substantial, to say the least.

The hazard I've noticed from creatine involves quite possible kidney damage, as I had a couple of semi-creepy test results when I was taking over 30 mgs a day. It was just too much, for too long. Since then, I've had to limit my intake there. But yes you're right, a lot of what makes creatine desirable involves just that very forced-water retention. When powerlifting that can be a significant mechanical advantage...I wouldn't reccomend it for bodybuilding competitions, of course. And you said it, nothing can match PEDs for gains...but they are also even more dangerous.

I have thick wrists, all the thicker for the thunderous heavy bag work I do.

 

I am not responding to any Mike Tyson thread, I feel that one has to respect his well deserved retirement. But on the subject of kidney disease, I have had kidney disease since 2002, I managed it well all those years despite a Creatine of 4.0. Then on Jan 21 2020, they had to use an I.V. Dye to check my arteries in my heart, my arteries were 90 percent blocked, plus I had Aortic Valve Stenosis. that Dye boosted up the Creatine to 5.0 I had open heart surgery, they replaced my Aortic valve with a mechanical one, they used the arteries in my legs to replace the clogged ones. I do Dialysis three days a week, Mon, Weds, and Friday for 4 hours, from 11 Am until 3 PM. So any type of altering your body or kidneys is dangerous, also Narcissistic. Impressing others using false means is not worth it, take care of your body, do not listen to others.

 

I remember reading this as well. I believe Tommy Brooks was interviewed in either KO or Boxing Illustrated and revealed this information. And it was Tommy Brooks who brought in Bell and Tua, not Don Turner.

 

WHOA, this is really scary! You're really making me think, Richard. I average about 12 mgs a day.

 

Your kidneys creatine are supposed to be at least 1.0, others want a false buff body, let them, but the after effects could be deadly, irreversible. You do not want to be on Dialysis three days a week. It is two I.V.'s in your left arm each treatment.

 

I'm in my 50s...I think I'll stop after tomorrow. I'm benching 160 lb dumbells, shooting for 5 to 6 reps. That will be a personal record and I'll stop.

I already had one creepy kidney scare before I went for hip surgery last February. the drs made me stop the creatine or else I couldn't get the surgery.

It's just that I get SO big and strong from it...

 

Slap on the PPE folks there is spittle and broken keys flying everywhere!!!

 

Good man! It takes personal strength to alleviate Ego by doing what is healthier instead of feeding vanity.
160 lbs. DB? Jeez only some gyms even have them.
My pressing has declined more than anything, seemingly because my Triceps are no longer fiendishly strong, just strong.
At my *best* I could do 10 reps with 120 lbs. DB, left arm a couple inches from all the way down, weights at an angle since it takes too much wrist strength to do all the reps straight...
12 pullover reps with 120 on the lying on a bench & bringing 120 down about as far behind the head as possible-but only by keeping it really close to the head.

Also 120 for 10 reps on the single DB behind the head triceps extensions.
Now that would be likely a max of 85 lbs. for 10!

Let us say that after you are Creatine free for a while, maybe you lose like 15% on your lifts.
So what? You will still be quite big & strong, literally nobody else will care, & you will be healthier & at less risk of unknown complications.

Plus the ladieieies tend to like a well built man, but on average prefer us not to be massive!
Likely because for for all survival & athletic pursuits cardio & endurance is useful, which with *that* much muscle cannot be as high.

 

You're unfortunately completely right...I LOVE being massive and powerful, but my wife (who's a dedicated lifter and fitness enthusiast herself) wants me more svelte. And she's the one who really counts.

Uh, you STILL have an impressive dumbbell bench press, and those pullovers are no joke!

I guess I have to sacrifice the big lifts and bulging bulk for my kidneys...sigh.

Got the 160s for 8 today, and that's a personal record in itself.

 

That is an Insane amount of weight! Congratulations, now you can chill & likely will feel better when you accept being more Mortal with your weights-while still really strong. There will be less self-pressure to achieve a certain size & numbers re: weights & reps.
You may migrate down in weight to ~ 240, & that would be quite fine too~!

Those weights I quoted were my best when at my strongest.
Only the ~ 85 lbs. triceps DB extensions for 10 are around now, & I at best could do a little more for the DB pressed now or pullovers, but thank you!

 

facts the same way I keep telling dummies he was a brawler and no brawler beat mike they needed to box

why would anybody say he beats him that quote is so flawed and old
he fought different in 90s he was a semi brawler/boxer that ver of holy only could beat mike always not the 80s ver why dont dummies watch cause its easy to see the difference

 

it's a crazy quote that needs to die anybody who seen holy 80s know he was a brawler style no brawler ever beat mike or came close to it and holy wasnt as tough for taking damage then so why say he beats Mike in that form it's weird

 

The OP was referring to a Prime Evander and a Prime Tyson. For the record, IMHO, I don't think Holyfield's prime was in the 1980's.

 

he wasnt and crazies followers keep sayin how he would always beat Mike his style of 80s would beat mike he was a full brawler no brawler ever beat or came close to beating mike

so why go off of a 90s style of holy which used a style of semi brawler mostly boxer it's a whole different style why act like that ver was in his 80s body it wasnt

 

Are you the defender of Mike Tyson?? Wtf