Joseph Obey Joyce vs. Armand Carlos Netsing Takam & Chris Jenkins vs. Ekow Essuman RBR.

Ortiz wouldn’t even get past Dubois. Don’t make me laugh.

Ortiz is an old man who has about 5 rounds in the tank. Joyce is an horrific style match up for someone with a lack of stamina.

 

I have reviewed a HL's package of the fight off the youtube and have flowing thoughts:-

1. Joyce looks very much like the young talent they scout for in rugby, Aussie Rules, basketball or gridiron (I'd imagine), in that he has great tools but needs a lot more time. These days they don't care if you can kick and ball or shoot a 3 pointer...they just want the athletes with the tools that can't be taught - eg. height or a v/high standing jump etc. Boxing can't really be rushed.....a young boxer can be hot-housed but care has to be taken with that.

2. When Joyce loses, he's going to lose badly....basically because he doesn't have boxing craft ingrained in him yet. And I mean badly in a massive way....like a Bentt-Morroson type loss. Fighters like him, pushed beyond their abilities get hammered when they get hammered. It could well come against a significant underdog too, so I'll be throwing a quid on Joyce to lose by KO whenever he fights, against whoever fights. Ching ching!

3. What if the Takam had been setting a trap for Joyce just before the stoppage?....he may well have been conserving his energy for a burst of activity once Joyce slowed down...could have been five to twenty seconds away....he wasn't even dropped and its not as though he'd been being pummeled for rounds. Early stoppage in my books and the referee should be counselled about such things...they do occur. Ref's need to know the fight game and these days they are often seeking praise for being 'safety first'....I say send them back to the convent; its the man's living and if your going to cut a man's career short with a stoppage loss, be sure the stoppage is called for. I have doubts about this one.

 

I think Ortiz would beat DDD myself.

Joyce is the fight I'd like to see next for Joyce as both had stated in the past they want it. Ortiz is ready to be taken and I think Joyce has proven he has a good enough chin not to be taken out with one shot even from a puncher like Ortiz.

I agree old man Ortiz's lack of stamina and also his lack of mobility would be bad against Joyce. Ortiz needs to KO him early if he is to have any chance, if it goes beyond rd 4, Ortiz will probably need a medical time out or have a heart attack. He is on blood pressure meds after all.

 

Because Dubois has 0 head movement
Seriously, he just kept eating that jab until his eye socket caved.

 

Yep that along with his attacks are predictable and he doesn't have the best footwork either, balanced, good base for power sure but movement in anything but straight lines is beyond him right now.

 

Setting a trap by letting himself do the stanky leg twice and taking at least 16 blows unanswered?

Boxing craft?

He is awkward, but has plenty of craft and skill

 

I had it 3 2 Joyce

But the first was close and could have been a Joyce round so possibly 4 1 Joyce

 

What if he was just getting his arse kicked?

Even if your hypothetical scenario was possible it was badly executed. Any boxer knows if you don't throw back you could get stopped, especially in the UK and to allow your opponent to throw 34 unanswered punches while you are clearly not defending yourself and are rocked twice, shouldn't be surprised if you get stopped.

 

He might have been - I didn't count how many times he was hit....I'm surprised to read it was 16 punches.

Anyway, generally speaking, many a fighter in Takam's situation have won the bout by letting it all hang-out in one last gamble....and that's if he was badly hurt. In the old days, fighters would feign being hurt to draw an opponent's offence and capitalize...see for eg. Ezzard Charles' kayo win over Archie Moore. These days, with today's referees....that fight would have been waved off as soon as Charles feigned being hurt and leaned on the ropes to simulate a 'stricken' fighter.

Oksay, we''ll have to agree to disagree, but I think you are confusing basic techniques like punching with craft.

 

You don't even need to go that far back for examples of this. Chisora/Takam for example, Chisora spend a lot of that fight on the ropes taking shots, but he was blocking shots with gloves and shoulders, rolling with punches to take the sting out of them, he couldn't match Takam for work rate but what he was able to do was rope a dope him to some degree and then boom laid him out.

I don't think Takam was doing that, he was just trying to survive and it wouldn't of worked, even if he did set a trap and land a big shot we'd already seen Joyce take Takam's power shots with no effect.

 

Takam was struggling to breathe on his stool in the last two round breaks due to Joyce working the body. I don't think he had any chance of recovering and the ref could see that.

 

Then he was getting his arse kicked. Its allowed...its part of the game. If his corner thought that there was something unusually bad about the punishment he was taking then they have a towel and the discretion to retire him....they seemed fine to let him continue and they know him better than the referee.

Odd comments about the referee may be thinking about future fights for Takam....that's not his job. The literally the corner's concern.

Yes, I understand, if you give a dummy a chance to act poorly its partly your fault...but often fighters tell ref's 'don't jump in if I'm taking punishment...I will look to come back'...and they still do this.

Referee's need to have some bottle about the game that it is....and not freak out about whether fight commentators are saying the fight should be stopped already. I have observed many referee's be more concerned about their own appearances / perceptions than the fighter's health....that's why I only like ex-fighters who 'get it' to referee in the pro's. Leave the Florence Nightingales to the amateurs. Takam wasn't dropped, wasn't given an 8 count, wasn't taken to see he doctor....its his career and he's fighting for his life / family....give the bloke his best shot at it.

 

Fair enough...I missed that on my HL's. And of course, the referee see's it a lot better from a metre away than I do from a HL package.

I still want referee's to give a bloke every opportunity to win.

 

He legs went twice in the 6th

He might have protested with lots of vigor and energy when stopped but make no mistake, he was done

And im not confusing anything with Joyce

He, as unsightly as he may be is the real deal

 

You are probably right....I just don't like the referee robbing the fighter of the opportunity to win...Joyce is not a smart fighter, and the way he was following Takam around....if Takam had some juice (I thought he might have been waiting for Joyce to slow down to put an offensive burst on) who knows what could happen.

Anyway, I'm pretty amazed that these guys are top 10 heavyweights. I should move to Nigeria, find some talent to train and take over the Hvy division. (joke)