I disagree. I think it's more laziness on the part of the matchmakers and promoters at this point. You often hear Chisora's name come up before anyone else's for the same reason it was brought up in this thread. Why? Because he'll take it. It's easy to make. He won't charge much. Fighting him is basically a guaranteed win at this point. And we can just WAIT AROUND for a mandatory. For so much crap people give ratings bodies, everyone sure falls in line when it comes to WAITING AROUND for mandatories. These guys don't fight enough to WAIT AROUND. Joe Joyce will be 36 years old when he steps in the ring next. IF he wants to win a belt and have ANY kind of title reign, he needs to push it now. Joyce has a powerful promoter. Warren has ties with ESPN. Warren controls the World Champ Fury. Who could stand in the way of a Joyce-Fury fight, in the eyes of the WBC? Whyte? Then try to make Joyce-Whyte next. REALLY TRY. Try to become the WBC AND WBO mandatory. Then you can fight either Fury or Joshua. FORCE IT. PUSH. Have some foresight. Does Warren think the WBC will want to stage an eliminator - which they sometimes do? Who is rated behind Whyte and ahead of Joyce in the WBC Ratigns? 1. Wilder 2. Ruiz 3. Ortiz 4. Parker 5. Joyce. If you can't get Whyte, there is the list of boxers you should be trying to fight next. Talk to Wilder's team. If Fury backs out of the third fight again, Wilder isn't going to want to wait around. Warren should talk to Haymon and the WBC and say they'd step in and fight Wilder on short notice if Fury bolts again. Put that bug in their heads. Or talk to the WBC about allowing Joyce to step in as a late sub if Wilder gets injured or something and can't make it to the third Fury fight. Or talk to team Andy Ruiz about a fight. Ruiz is game to fight about anyone. Ortiz is, as well. Parker-Joyce are rated #2 and #3 in the WBO ratings, too. Make Joyce-Parker, and it could be a WBC and a WBO eliminator. FORCE the champions' hands. That's all I'm saying. Don't sit around fighting Chisora because it's easy and you can just stand still for another year until you are 37 and hope someone decides to fight you. Force BOTH titleholders to have to face you. Demand that your promoter works FOR YOU. Demand your manager WORKS for you. This generation of promoters just waits and waits and waits. Make some goddamn fights! (LOL)
Joyce is in need of moving up as quick to a title chance as possible as he is old, Chisora is not going to help him progress, if he beats him which i think likely then Joyce will not be viewed any higher, and Chisora has stated he would want big money, Joyce vs Chisora is not a money making fight for a promoter. If Joyce gets a title shot i hope he tightens his defence somewhat, as he was absorbing over the top punches from Takam time and time again.
I think it's crazy to say that Joyce is a tougher opponent than AJ despite doing nothing to prove it, through his record or performances.
So you don't want to see Joyce fight Chisora... Because he's crap... But you do want to see him fight Ortiz, who has never proven himself to be any better than a journeyman either? Okay...
Well, AJ has been hurt, buckled or dropped by every decent puncher he's gotten in the ring with. Joyce has not. I'd say it's a pretty reasonable assumption to make.
Chisora appeared interesting for big game exactly after he lost fight vs old Vitali. He get x xxx xxx paycheck and vuala, Haye had booked him to fight with, x xxx xxx paycheck. Then Fury booked him to fight with again. Regards to Whyte fights : one from them might had been scored for Chisora not for Whyte. Whyte finished Chisora in their next fight, does this really means that Chisora was so bad? Chisora unlike Whyte, never had been KOed out cold by 224 lbs 40 years 11 months old senior citizen, boxer long ago over the hill and out of prime. I don't see so much things how Chisora might be level below Whyte. Nope. Fight vs Helenius might be scored also as a draw or even for Chisora. Parker had dealt with Chisora but this fight was real nightmare for Parker. Usyk fight: Chisora was not helpless boxing bag, I had scored 3 rounds for Chisora and 1 round might had been as a draw. He pulled Usyk under pressure and for Usyk first 4 rounds were not easy. Haye fight? Then Haye was ~217lbs and in good shape, he moved like appox 210 lber and had punch like he was 230-235 lber. Chisora had gave him problems and it was not easy fight for Haye until he landed properly on Chisora. Haye in good shape packed far more power in his punches than Usyk, I think he punched not less hard than prime Povetkin version with good legs. Povetkin"s version with normal legwork had dealt with the same Takam more impressively than A.J did the same job.
This isn't about who "Bubbles" thinks is a contender. It's who is rated above Joyce and how to get Joyce a title shot as quickly as possible. A win over Ortiz would put Joyce in the WBC top 2 or 3. If I was Joyce's team, the first thing I'd do is talk to the WBC and to Wilder's team and push to have Joyce as the designated "stand by" opponent for the upcoming Wilder-Fury III bout. Warren is Fury's promoter, too. So that's half the battle. I'd also work hard to sign to face someone in the WBC top five ... with the stipulation in the contract that if Joyce does become a late sub for either Wilder or Fury ... and Joyce wins the title ... he'll defend against that person first. That's basically how Foreman got the Holyfield title fight. Both George and Evander signed to fight while Holyfield was training for Douglas. They were going to fight whether Holyfield won the belt or not. But Evander also agreed that if he won the title, he'd defend against George first. And he did. (Arum was directly involved in negotiating that. Warren can talk to Arum about it.) It might even help get Joyce one of the top contenders to sign. If you can make Joyce-Parker, push the WBO and/or the WBC (preferably both) to make it an eliminator for both belts. Hell, Joyce and Parker are both in the IBF ratings, go to them to make it an eliminator, too. Don't wait for orgs to act on their own. Work with them. Make calls. Push them. Most orgs are happy if promoters and fighters WANT to work with them. The IBF can't get an eliminator made with Hrgovic because no one will make it. Hell, if you can't get anyone in the WBC top 5, or Parker, go for Hrgovic. Make Joyce-Hrgovic an IBF eliminator. Push people to commit and push people to act. Don't wait for your turn. Joyce's "turn" may not come until he's 38.
This might mean absolutely nothing. WBC Cruiserweight champ is Makabu. ________Last boxer Makabu had fought was 40 y.o Durodola's version.
IF Joe Joyce fought Luis Ortiz next and beat him, it would mean something in every organization that rates both Joyce and Ortiz in the top 10 - namely the WBC, WBO and IBF. I don't know what the cruiserweights have to do with any of this.
Joyce has been in the ****ing ring with Dubois and Takam, arguable not even Chisora quality, how does that compare to Joshua's opponents? No one is denying Joyce has a better chin, but that's it. He has no head movement, a lot less skill, is slower, and hasn't really got a power punch. Sure Joyce may be harder to knock down, but you're going to get a lot less quality coming back at you.
Warren promotes Fury. Warren promotes Joyce. Fury is the WBC Champion. Instead of trying to just get a fight for Joyce with Joshua, Joyce should have HIS PROMOTER Warren do all he can to get a fight with FURY - who Warren also works with - also. This is about JOE JOYCE. And how to get Joe Joyce a title shot quickly. You get it quickly by being in a position to fight either champ.
He won't charge much? His last fight vs Parker he was reportedly guaranteed £2.5 mill and with PPV made £5 mill, he actually made double what Parker made. He isn't cheap, if he was he would of already fought Joyce when they called Chisora out a while ago. Fact is Chisora is a draw in the UK, he's earned UK casual fans support through always taking tough fights and it seems to have earned him the ability to earn way more than anyone else with that many losses should command. Parker, Usyk and Whyte could of fought better fighters than Chisora but in terms of risk reward Chisora is the opposite of that usual equation, fight Chisora in the UK has little risk but huge reward. Joyce could probably make his first 7 figure payday vs Chisora but wouldn't do that vs Ortiz, Hrgovic or Yoka. That's why people keep choosing him and of course Chisora is happy to take another loss for another 7 figure payday. Joyce has a solid promoter with influence and power yes, but he isn't Warren's priority is he, Fury is. He's always going to make fights based on what financially makes most sense and unfortunately for Joyce he isn't a big draw yet so he won't just be given a shot vs Fury. But I agree he doesn't have time to waste. But again he can only fight who is willing to fight him and who his handlers are willing to put him in against. If he has no other options to further his career and he's forced between a fight between him and another C or B level heavyweight then Chisora is the default guy because he will at least be entertaining and give Joyce a good payday. So again I reiterate Chisora shouldn't be a first choice but he's a good last resort.
He has options. He just needs his promoter to focus on his career and ways to get him a title shot as quickly as possible. Being a "standby" opponent for a title fight is the quickest route to a title shot. Fury and Wilder are signed. Joshua and Usyk are signed. Joyce is in the top 5 in the WBC. He's in the top 2 in the WBO. Work with the orgs and get an agreement ahead of time to be the standby guy if any of those four drop out and the card needs to go ahead. Start there. Then try to get a fight signed with one of the top contenders ... and guarantee them the first title shot if you get called to fight for a belt before their match takes place. So, if you don't get the call, you still have a highly rated contender to face regardless. If Joyce was 24, he could wait until Joshua got around to fighting him. But he's turning 36. If they sign to fight Chisora, to me, that's just Warren not doing his job. And Warren not focusing on Joyce. Warren got Joyce rated rather quickly, but the clock is ticking.
Well Chisora will be 38 in Dec. and has 2 fights in 3 years so that fits what Joyce is looking for. What's Chisora's best win? Whyte? Takam?and those were years ago. At this point Chisora is a gatekeeper.