Was Bowe's chin really tested?

Dude, now I know what you have 42,000 plus posts ... zzzzzzzzzz.

 

there’s nothing that puts one to sleep faster than listening to a broken record - “ Bowe never fought the best punchers “ etc

 

Regarding Riddick Bowe and Ray Mercer ...

Riddick Bowe lost to Ray Mercer's Army buddy Robert Salters twice. Salters stopped Bowe in the US National tournament. Salters beat Bowe again in the U.S. Olympic Trials, when Mercer upset Michael Bentt (who was considered a lock for the Gold medal at the Olympics).

Salters and Mercer went to the Olympic Box-Offs just needing to win once to make the Olympics together.

Mercer beat Bentt again and made the U.S. team. Salters lost in an upset to Bowe, so they had to fight again the next day. Once again, Bowe won. So, when the Olympians left for Seoul, Bowe and Mercer were roommates. And they hated each other. They even had a contest between each other to see who could score the most knockouts at the Olympics, and it became a contest that reporters wrote about.

This angered the Olympic coaches because they thought these two NEW guys (Bowe and Mercer) who weren't supposed to be on the team anyway (Salters and Bentt were expected to be) were going to screw up, just throw power shots, and lose decisions.

But, both made it to the finals. Mercer won by KO. Bowe lost to Lennox Lewis.

When they turned pro, they still didn't like each other. When Mercer signed to fight Tommy Morrison the FIRST TIME for a fight that was to be held in the summer of 1991, Morrison pulled out with an injury. Mercer's manager challenged Bowe on TV to fight Mercer. Bowe and Rock Newman agreed. And the Bowe-Mercer fight was was signed and set for that summer.

Then Mercer pulled out, claiming an injured foot or toe. He announced this on the USA network and got into a famous shoving match with Newman. So Mercer backed out and he was replaced by Seldon. Bowe wasted Seldon inside a round that August. And then Mercer and Morrison was rescheduled for October and Mercer won.

Then Bowe and Mercer were supposed to fight in Bowe's second title defense in 1993, but Mercer lost to Jesse Ferguson. Mercer was charged by authorities with trying to fix a professional prizefight and actually was put on trial, so they couldn't exactly then put Mercer in a heavyweight title fight.

So I don't think Bowe not fighting Mercer wasn't for a lack of trying on Bowe's part. Bowe signed to fight Mercer in 1991, and Mercer pulled out. Then Bowe agreed to defend against Mercer in 1993, and Mercer not only lost his tuneup, he got charged by the feds with fight fixing.

So, you can't fault Bowe for either. How freaking hard is it to beat Jesse Ferguson, for Christ's sake. He lost to half the guys he fought. Hell, Dokes, who Bowe knocked out in one in the main event, beat Ferguson before Mercer fought him. Ferguson had lost four of his last five fights.

If Bowe didn't fight Mercer, it wasn't for a lack of trying.

 

The last year of Bowe's career (before his ill-advised comeback nearly a decade later) ... HBO held a NIGHT OF THE YOUNG HEAVYWEIGHTS card.

On the show were Golota, Briggs, Tua, Ruiz, Grant, Nicholson, Izon (who won the Silver at the Olympics).

Golota was in the main event against Nicholson (who had already beaten Ruiz).
Briggs was considered the hot prospect because he was from NY. He got an easy pushover Darrol Wilson.
Tua (who had lost to Izon in the Olympics) got Ruiz, like I said, who Nicholson had already beaten.
Izon, the undefeated Olympic silver medalist, got another pushover, Maurice Harris.

Rahman wasn't even invited. He only had 12 or 13 fights and was still toiling away on USA Network cards.

Well, Izon lost. Shannon Briggs got knocked out. Tua looked impressive against Ruiz, who only lasted seconds. And Golota, in the main event, demolished Nicholson.

So Bowe fought Golota - who was considered the best of the young group by HBO. And Golota basically ended Bowe's career.

But lumping a bunch of guys who didn't arrive until Bowe was months from retirement is dumb. HBO was the biggest network in boxing. They hadn't even seen most of those guys before.

 

solid post. I tried explaining some of this to him but it fell on def ears. I mean how hard is it to see that these guys weren’t relevant during the Main stream part of his career ?

 

Here's dumb, justifying and denying management decisions on a fighter who was carefully handled because of a fragile chin and excusing it .. How's this ? He didn't fight Ray Mercer, Michael Moorer, Razor Ruddick, Frank Bruno, Mike Tyson, Gary Mason, Mike Weaver, Tony Tucker or Tommy Morrison not to mention Lewis. I happen to like Riddick Bowe but the man was handled .. his chin and heart were questioned coming into the pro's ... he was KOed multiple times as an amateur and manhandled by Lewis in the Olympics. He did not fight any of the top hard punching heavyweights , none. He gave up his title rather that defend against Lewis. His career record is filled with bouts against moderate punching heavyweights , good for sure but not bangers, and a handful of hard hitting but second rate fighters .. it is what it is .. Holyfield, Tyson, Lewis all fought close to everyone but Bowe did not.

 

Not really the biggest puncher he faced was probably Hide and he said himself he was out on his feet at one point but didn't go down and that's what we do know, while his chin wasn't tested his heart passed all the tests any fighter could go through.

I think he had a solid chin, not great but his heart was immense. I suspect he was a guy that could of gone down a lot more had he fought more punchers but he very likely would of gotten up again and again. Not an easy man to keep down.

 

I'm convinced that, besides outrageous laziness, Bowe's kryptonite was getting hit WAY too much. Had he listened to Futch...really LISTENED to him, tightened up his defense, he would have mowed over Holy in the rematch and stayed champ for years.

As it is...as much as I greatly admire prime Bowe and wish he would have cared more, he remains one of the sport's biggest wastes. His potential seemed unlimited. Having a MUCH better manager would have helped a lot too one of the most brain dead decisions in boxing history was letting Newman screw him out of the fight with Lewis. He could have retired after that, win or lose.

 

Once again, Bowe signed to fight Ray Mercer in 1991. Ray Mercer pulled out. Bowe agreed to fight Ray Mercer a second time in 1993, and Ray Mercer not only lost his tune-up, he was charged and tried in court with trying to fix that sporting event he was involved in.

What about that don't you get?

If you are mad Bowe didn't fight Mercer, blame Ray Mercer. He is the reason both fights were called off. They gave Mercer the EASIEST guy to beat the night Bowe and Dokes fought ... even Dokes had beaten Ferguson ... and Mercer not only lost he got charged with trying to fix the fight.

Razor Ruddock? Razor Ruddock would've fought Bowe, but he got knocked out in two rounds by Lewis. You're mad Bowe didn't fight Lewis. Was Bowe supposed to fight Ruddock after that two-round blowout Razor suffered against Lewis?

Bowe fought Pinklon Thomas in 1990. Isn't that better than fighting Mike Weaver in 1991? Thomas proved in the ring he was better than Mike Weaver.

Moorer was flattened twice and barely survived against Cooper. Mercer fought Cooper in a WAR. Bowe iced Cooper inside two rounds.

Tony Tucker? Tony Tucker is a BOMBER Bowe didn't fight? Tony Tucker, the guy got stopped by Herbie Hide and Bruce Seldon? Tony Tucker was a bomber? (LOL) Then why didn't he stop Hide and Seldon?

Hell, Bowe fought Holyfield in 1992, 1993 and 1995 ... Lewis didn't fight Holyfield until 1999 - SEVEN YEARS after Bowe first beat him. Holyfield was 30 years old when Bowe fought and beat him the first time. Evander was 37 when Lewis beat him.

I totally agree that if Bowe had fought more punchers he probably would've lost more. Totally get that.

But some of these names you're throwing around are comical, especially since Lewis didn't even fight them until long after Bowe retired.

You're just pulling names Lewis fought and demanding to know why Bowe didn't fight the exact same guys, whether they were in the picture when Bowe was still fighting or not.

I'd have loved to see Bowe against Tyson or MORE IMPORTANTLY Lewis. I thought Bowe totally ducked Lewis, too.

But I wouldn't have wanted to see Bowe fight Tyson in 2002, when Lewis finally got around to facing him. I wouldn't have wanted to see Bowe come out of retirement in 1999 after three years and fight Holyfield for the first time, when Lewis finally got around to fighting him.

If you are mad Bowe didn't fight Tyson in the early 90s, then be mad Lewis didn't fight Tyson 10 years before he did, too.

Lewis is the guy who came out of the Olympics with the gold medal, not Bowe.

 

That's a myth. Bowe made the utterly moronic move to let Newman offer Lewis a RIDICULOUSLY small amount of money to fight Bowe and when Lewis understandably was outraged by the insult Newman talked Bowe into trashing the belt.

Newman was one of boxing history's worse managers, he ruined Bowe's chance to avenge the dubious Olympics stoppage and retire early. But let's not forget Bowe being stupid enough to follow his orders.

Watch Bowe after the first Holyfield fight, when he was confronted by Lewis. There's no fear at all.

 

No fear at all. (LOL) You mean Bowe yelling at Lewis while he's walking away? LOL. Yeah, that's always the sign of a guy who is not scared ... the one barking as he bids a hasty retreat. (LOL)

That fight was set and everyone wanted it ... and Bowe literally vacated to fight Michael Dokes.

Bowe's actions were the definition of a duck in boxing. That is what a duck in boxing looks like. SEE BOWE-LEWIS 1992. You give up a belt to avoid fighting the guy who beat you before. They even lowballed Lewis with the purse, Lewis accepted, and they still dumped the belt. (LOL)

 

I respectfully agree to disagree. I stand by what I wrote.

 

Lewis even promised to donate his purse to the starving people Bowe was supposedly trying to help. (LOL) Bowe still "ducked" away.

It doesn't get any "duckier" than that. And I stand by that.

Even Holyfield was making fun of Bowe on Youtube recently for ducking Lewis. Everyone knew what he did. HBO. The orgs. The fans. Everyone.

https://www.nytimes.com/1992/12/15/sports/boxing-bowe-trashes-his-wbc-title-belt.html
Newman said Lewis had been offered two chances to fight Bowe for the title: a guaranteed $3 million with a possible payoff of $15 million more for a first defense if he beat Bowe, or $3 million to fight an opponent of his choosing plus $9 million and a share of the promotion for a followup fight with Bowe.

Lewis, after initially turning down an offer of $3 million, said he was willing to take the fight. But by then, Bowe had changed his mind.

 

All respect, I've seen all this. Not convinced.

You've contributed a lot of valuable input here, my friend. This is no different.