Bad Calls

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by scartissue, Jul 28, 2021.


  1. Boxing2019

    Boxing2019 If you want peace, prepare war. banned Full Member

    7,175
    5,448
    Jul 22, 2019
    I rewatched many times that video. It was a graze from Bonecrusher to Tyson off balanced. Tyson was lucky Smith wasnt able to double the shot. Many here instead say it was a slip.
     
  2. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Now Deceased 2/4/25 Full Member

    22,635
    30,410
    Jul 16, 2019
    Jim Watt vs Sean O'Grady WBC Lightweight Title, Nov 1 1980, headbutt caused a nasty cut on Sean, TKO 12 for Watt.
     
  3. Flo_Raiden

    Flo_Raiden Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    18,720
    29,403
    Oct 12, 2010
    Laurence Cole showing what an incompetent ref he really is.
    Pacquiao trips in the first round against Barrera but gets called a KD in Barrera’s favor.
    This content is protected


    Abraham clearly drops Dirrell @ 9:16 but was ruled a slip.
    This content is protected
     
    Richard M Murrieta likes this.
  4. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

    10,383
    12,741
    Mar 2, 2006
    Flo, actually I feel both of these were trips. In the Pac - Barrera fight it was actually Pac that landed the shot while Barrera did a Chuck Wepner on Pac. Abraham-Dirrell to a lesser point because Abraham landed a good shot on Dirrell, but he hooked his foot around Andre and Dirrell had no where to go but down.
     
  5. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

    10,383
    12,741
    Mar 2, 2006
    Here is a good one. Robin Blake against Tony Baltazar. At 9:08 of this vid, the orthodox Baltazar lands a lead right on the southpaw Blake and down he goes only for the ref to call it no-knockdown. Unbelievable.

    This content is protected
     
    Rope-a-Dope likes this.
  6. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    24,648
    18,474
    Jun 25, 2014
    Since the night it happened, I've been fascinated with the final round of Briggs-Liakhovich.

    Liakhovich was making the first defense of the WBO heavyweight title after winning it in a classic war with Lamon Brewster in his previous fight.

    Going in to round 12, Liakovich was up THREE POINTS on two of the official cards. Meaning, Briggs needed to score two knockdowns and get a 10-7 round just to get a draw. Not a win, a draw ... and Liahkovich would've retained the title.

    Now, the TV counter on the screen during the final round of the broadcast can sometimes not sync up with the official timekeeper's count. In this case, it is off by a second or two and then the Showtime clock actually stops at the 26 mark and freezes before they just remove it from the screen entirely.

    But, with the help of this clip on Youtube, we can watch the timestamp of the fight and see that the bell rings to start round 12, at 1:03:09.

    So, unless time is called by the ref at some point (and it never is during the round) at 1:06:09 (3 minutes later), the official timekeeper should start ringing the bell signaling the end of the fight.

    So, with less than 30 seconds remaining in the round, Briggs drops Liakhovich.

    As Liakhovich is on the floor, the Showtime clock on the screen freezes at 26 seconds remaining in the round.

    Since we know, thanks to YouTube, that the bell rang at 1:03:09, we know the bell should ring ending the fight on the video when the timestamp reads 1:06:09.

    Now, with 10 seconds remaining in the fight the TIMEKEEPER is not watching the clock and doesn't pound on the floor to signal to the ref that 10 seconds remain. Apparently, the timekeeper was just watching the fight.

    And, at 1:06:09 ... Liakhovich is sitting on the ropes and has just begun to fall out of the ring.

    Again, the bell should've begun clanging incessantly at this moment signaling the fight is over. But the bell doesn't ring. The referee doesn't know how much time is left in the round. The timekeeper never pounded the floor with 10 seconds left. And when the round ended, the timekeeper STILL doesn't ring the bell.

    So Liakhovich lands on the announcers table. There is confusion for a handful of seconds even though the round is over.

    According to the Association of Boxing Commissions:
    A boxer shall receive a twenty (20) second count if the boxer is knocked out of the ring. The boxer is to be unassisted by spectators or his/her seconds. If assisted by anyone, the boxer may lose points or be disqualified with such a decision being within the sole discretion of the referee.

    But only after a handful of seconds, the referee starts waving his arms ... even though he hasn't counted to 20 ... and the timekeeper starts clanging the bell for the first time at 1:06:15 - after the round has gone about 3 minutes and 16 seconds.

    I always wondered what would've happened if the timekeeper actually did his job.

    All he had to do was let the ref know there were 10 seconds left in the round and ring the bell 3 minutes after he started the round. HE DID NEITHER.

    If he pounded on the canvas with 10 seconds left, would the referee have moved in and gotten close to the two fighters preparing to jump in at the bell?

    And what would've happened if the timekeeper actually rang the bell at the three-minute mark before Liakhovich actually fell totally out of the ring?

    Does the ref say the fight is over because Liakhovich hasn't hit the deck yet?

    If he rules it a knockdown, why didn't he give Liakhovich 20 seconds to get back in? He waves it off a handful of seconds as Sergei begins to climb.

    Remember, even if you credit Briggs for a 10-7 round, Liakhovich retains the title on the official cards.

    What's even more bizarre, when they announce the winner, they say Briggs stopped him at 2:59 of the round. Yet the round went 17 seconds longer than the "official" result.

    This content is protected
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2021
  7. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    24,648
    18,474
    Jun 25, 2014
    Of course, the timekeeper's mistake that has never been explained are the actions of the timekeeper in the Gerrie Coetzee-Greg Page fight.

    Again, using YouTube, you see the bell rings beginning the eighth and what would be the final round at the 34 minute 26 second mark. So the round should end three minutes later at the 37 minute 26 second mark.

    But, after three minutes, the two men are still fighting.

    Nearly a full minute later ... at the 38:16 mark ... Coetzee crashes to the floor from a brutal hook thrown by Page. The referee begins his count.

    At 38:27 ... 4 minutes and 1 second after the round began, the referee counts Coetzee out and Page is the new champ.

    The round ran MORE than a full minute too long. And when the referee counted out Coetzee, the timekeeper still hadn't rung the bell.

    Even if the timekeeper lost track of the count at three minutes why didn't he ring the bell when he got to four minutes?

    He never rings the bell at all. That's kind of the only reason he's there.

    And how in the hell did the WBA not give Coetzee an immediate rematch? Coetzee asked for one. They said no.

    Even more bizarrely, the timekeeper said the official time of the stoppage was 3:03 of the round. But the round clearly ran more than 4 minutes.

    The announcers on the broadcast even more bizarrely say "you can't be saved by the bell." But the bell never rang for him to be saved by it.

    It didn't even ring after four minutes.

    This content is protected
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2021
  8. Kamikaze

    Kamikaze Bye for now! banned Full Member

    4,226
    4,537
    Oct 12, 2020
    I remember (it may be wrong) Oscar Bonavena rightfully decking Chuvalo.
     
    Richard M Murrieta likes this.
  9. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Now Deceased 2/4/25 Full Member

    22,635
    30,410
    Jul 16, 2019
    It was a bout billed as The Battle Of The Indestructibles in 1966.
     
  10. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

    10,383
    12,741
    Mar 2, 2006
    Dubblechin, these are two well researched incidents on your part. I recalled the incident of the Coetzee-Page bout but didn't know about Briggs-Liakhovich. Well done. I recall a like-incident during the Leonard-Kalule fight when Ray finally decked Kalule in the 9th. The timekeeper would not ring the bell with Kalule standing taking the count. The ref decides to stop it while looking at Kalule and is recorded at 2:59 (I think this is always their go-to time when they screw-up). Finally, they had to admit it was 3:06, but the damage was done. If the bell had rung, they would have returned to their corners, as Kalule had risen from the knockdown. But he never got the opportunity at the 10th round. When this happened I saw conspiracies everywhere because Leonard was their golden child. I just saw him getting breaks that others didn't. But it is what it is.
     
    Dubblechin likes this.
  11. JabbaTheGut

    JabbaTheGut Active Member Full Member

    661
    822
    Sep 17, 2019
    Marco Antonio Barrera vs Juan Manual Marquez
    Marquez clearly gets dropped but the ref didn't see it somehow and deducts a point from Barrera for hitting Marquez while he was down. Starts at 2:41
    This content is protected
     
    scartissue likes this.
  12. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    24,648
    18,474
    Jun 25, 2014
    Yes, most screw-ups like these in real time are just humans who can't react quickly enough or can't make snap decisions.

    I don't tend to fall into the conspiracy hole when they happen. I figure clearer heads will review it and correct the call.

    The problems for me come when they are given a chance to review what occurred and still do nothing.

    I brought these up because titles actually changed hands and even if the results that night stood, both can make clear arguments errors by officials resulted in a titles changing hands. So the least that could be done is order a rematch.

    I remember when NBC revewed the Coetzee-Page fight the following weekend, and Marv Albert and Ferdie Pacheco saying something like boy this is going to get overturned.

    I mean, how do you lose a heavyweight title at the 4:01 MARK of a round? And how do you come up with the official results as 2:59 or 3:03 in those two fights when anyone who can count can see that's wrong?

    But those numbers still stand today. And no action to correct them were taken. That's the "corruption" part.
     
  13. Quick Cash

    Quick Cash Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,718
    352
    Jul 12, 2007
    This content is protected


    Not sure if my timestamp worked. 41:26 shows Morales' head collide with Barrera's hip.
     
  14. Quick Cash

    Quick Cash Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,718
    352
    Jul 12, 2007
    While I'm grateful for the chance to review the classic twelfth, there was only a 6 second difference. By that point, the bell was purely academic as he had already downed Liakhovich, and the referee has the discretion to stop the fight at any time. More of a Chavez-Taylor call than a bad call I would say.

    Yes, I remember this one well. Definitely a knockdown, but the point deduction was also deserved.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2021
  15. Quick Cash

    Quick Cash Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,718
    352
    Jul 12, 2007
    I would lean towards no knockdown on this one, actually. I didn't see his knee (it could have only been his right) touch the canvas.

    Toughest one to call on this page. I have no problem calling this a flash knockdown, but he might have already been on his way down before the punch landed.

    Those punches missed.