Hardest Hitter of all time in heavyweight division.

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Seriously? Earnie Shavers "pillowfisted." Some of you young don't know **** about boxing.

 

For one single shot? Wilder.

Doesnt mean he is the best puncher of all time though.

 

Every fighter Shavers knocked out had no chin... none.

 

Shavers was a modern day cruiserweight. For a cruiserweight he hit extremely hard, and he had the style to make his punches felt against bigger and heavier fighters, so in that regard his power was noteworthy. But compared to the top tier punchers we've seen in the division over the years he falls way short.

 

You make some extreme statements even though you know boxing-no fighter Shavers Koed had any chin whatsoever?
You must not believe that. He fought guys who rarely or never were Koed before facing him. Check boxrec.
Even someone like Norton who we know had trouble with massive punchers who were World Class fighters-it is crazy to say he had no chin-if so he would have been KOed often, including by Holmes with all the punichment he absorbed.

It is also pretty basic or commonly understood that who you KO is a very poor measure of power.
Because so many factors go into that-skill, precision, combination punching, finishing ability, even your chin.
Might as well say many HW boxers are fat due to just height/weight-without looking at muscle.
Or take any sports stat that is team, era &/or context dependent-clearly some guys have way more home runs, wins, RBIs, Runs etc-to take just baseball-due to MAny factors besides ability.

The argument about size is less far-fetched, that is correlated with power.
BUT there is a law of diminishing returns.
In other sports such as baseball, you can MEASURE that the fastest (or longest) throwers & furthest home runs hitters are sometimes around Shavers size. Sometimes smaller. I can give many examples.

And something like these skills is similar to the explosiveness of throwing a punch.
Huge commitment to shots, practice, wood chopping, disproportionately long & strong arms, huge hands-they made Shavers a top tier puncher.

Everyone who faced him, win or lose, picked him as hitting the hardest.
Including those who faced the larger George Foreman. Was everybody wrong?

Nah, Shavers did hit that hard.
IF a few HHWs hit as hard or harder, it is a very short list.

 

It's just fax. Tyson Fury hits harder than Shavers 100%. Its because he's 270 pounds and Shavers is 210. Shavers never KO'd a super heavyweight. Shavers is a modern day cruiserweight.

Shavers = Featherfisted compared to today's big men

 

Wilder has been as low as 211 for some of his fights as WBC champion.

 

Tyson Fury can tear a mans torso from his legs with a punch

He just chooses not to.

 

That was a response to Zakman, and wasn't to be taken seriously. Off the top of my head the number guys I've seen Shavers hurt whom I consider to have good chins would be reasonably large, but the number of guys he actually KOed that fit those attributes would be far smaller.

It's a short list if your cutoff period is the early eighties. Past that point Shavers begins to get lost in the crowd.

 

Thing is, sometimes you just can't get a stoppage. You do remember Wilder fought Stiverne and hit him consistently over 12 rounds and could not even drop him?

 

True. I think if you have the right attributes you can still hit as hard as anyone in the division without being a giant in the weight department. Look at Gassiev, probably one of the hardest punchers at HW right now. Huck and Haye were also monstrous punchers when they competed at the weight.

 

Bigger isn't always better. Or more powerful.

 

What ?? That can't be right. Bigger ALWAYS MEANS MORE POWERFUL. Thats why Oliver Mccall claimed Bert Cooper hit harder than Lennox Lewis..... wait a minute that IMPOSSIBLE Bert Cooper is a blown up cruiserweight.

I'll bring up another example, Danny Williams claimed Mike Tyson hit harder than Vitali Klitschko... wait no that can't be true, Vitali's bigger. He must hit harder than Mike Tyson.

How about when Joe Bugner claimed Shavers was an enormous puncher and hit him the hardest despite fighting James Smith, Frank Bruno and Ron Lyle throughout his career.... no that's not right. Shavers is a small heavyweight, no way a small heavyweight can hit that hard...

Wait i got one, Tyson Fury stopped Chisora because he's bigger, nobody has ever stopped Chisora quicker than Fury..... cough cough 210lb David Haye

I have another example to end this debate once and for all. Ray Mercer claimed Tommy Morrison hit him harder than Wladimir Klitschko... hold on isn't Klitschko way bigger ? that makes no sense. Mercer must be lying to us....LOL

No more trolling. Here's the reality. Super heavyweights on average hit harder than smaller 200-225 pound heavyweights. But you will get tons of exceptions like Mike Tyson, Earnie Shavers, Alexander Povetkin, Tommy Morrison, Bert Cooper, etc just like there are tons of examples of huge guys who aren't particularly powerful punchers like Tony Yoka, Tyson Fury, Mariusz Wach, Tony Thompson, Kubrat Pulev, Jameel McCline. Etc. After 200 pounds size gets less and less relevant the bigger you get and even at 200 pounds its isn't near as relevant as it is in lower weightclasses

So yes you are correct. Bigger doesn't mean more powerful. Shavers was probably a murderous puncher who hit harder than most hard punching SHWs and although i don't think he hit harder than Klitschko i would not be suprised at all if he did

 

The big problem with putting Wilder up there is he's never beaten anyone above gatekeeper level, and in a relatively weak era at that.

Has he knocked out anyone with a proper granite chin? Not really, no - a few with pretty decent chins, Breazeale had a decent chin (but already took a KO from AJ) and Ortiz seemed fairly sturdy too (but had a pathetic resume beforehand, Jennings aside).

Wilder has spent years cultivating this image of himself as a super hard hitter that's so dangerous that everybody ducks him, but it's a fraudulent one - he hits hard, but he's been the one ducking away from top fights... His power might be legitimately up there, but his refusal to step up and fight worlds level contenders means it's completely unproven, and I'm not inclined to believe it on the basis of knocking out B- and below opponents.

 

Wilder DID drop Stiverne at the end of the second round in their first fight. Stiverne tackled him on the way down, and they were both on the floor, so the ref mistakenly didn't rule it a knockdown.

But Stiverne could barely get up AFTER WILDER DROPPED HIM. And Wilder broke his right hand in the next round, so he had to box his way to a decision. This was also widely reported. All you have to do is type BROKEN HAND WILDER 2015. PAGES of articles pop up.

Yes, sometimes when you break your right hand, it's difficult to score a knockout.

My question is how do you guys not know this stuff?

How do you say Wilder couldn't drop Stiverne in their first fight WHEN IT'S ON FILM ...

And how do you say sometimes you can hit a guy consistently for 12 rounds and LEAVE OUT that he broke his hand in the third?

And, in the return, WITHOUT a broken hand, Wilder stopped Stiverne inside a round.