Muhammad Ali 1974 v Mike Tyson 1988

Cus certainly could.

 

Except Ali wouldn't use the strategy of laying on the ropes against Tyson. If the older, shopworn Ali of the 2nd Spinks fight could still stick and move the whole fight, a younger fresher Ali certainly could. Ali was also a master of tying up when his opponent got in close. And Tyson does work his way out of clinches. Rather, he waits for the referee to break them. I fail to see how Tyson could withstand the hot, humid ring that night in Zaire and finish 15 rounds. No way does Tyson stop this Ali.

 

Ali already had parkinson`s to some degree v Spinks and Tyson was far better than Spinks.

 

That is absolutely untrue Mark.
First, you are minimizing what he did, & the difficulty of executing it.
Very few could have absorbed that beating in that tiny, slow ring & stayed aloft.
some fighter's whole career is based upon countering-might as well say all Tyson did was find openings & throw combinations. That is a hell of a lot to do.

Also, it is factually incorrect.
Did you miss anything else Ali did, such as all the jolting right hand leads?
You did not even mention rope-a-dope. Think it is easy to move in a severely restricted space & minimize or handle damage?

Let alone Ali's creative cheating. Pulling down Foreman's head. And Tyson had his share of extra-legal elbows & such.

Tyson certainly could have won.
But Ali was way better then than Tillis, & Tyson being peak in no way assures victory.

 

This is very plausible. Except it may be Mike winning the 11th, not the 12th. Ali knew how to close out the show.

 

WTF?

 

Wrong, Tyson created openings with an active guard and movement and feints, he was an awesome counter/pressure fighter.

 

Not against a combo puncher like Mike, Dundee stated Tyson was the greatest combo puncher he`sd ever seen, Ali only won the last round against fighters far inferior to Tyson.

 

Teddy Atlas once was comparing Ali to Tyson,,he said "Ali won a lot of his later fights with his character,, Mike Tyson didn't have any". Ali would negate Tyson's power like he did every big banger he fought, as you said Ali's ring I.Q. is off the charts next to Tyson, add to that the brilliant ring generalship that he showed in the Foreman fight and Tyson gets his head swelled up. Some time after round 12 Ali will hit Tyson with a straight right that gives him the shakes and Ali finishes him in the 14th round.

 

lol! I know

I'm not sure Mike would make it that long, my friend. I don't think he'd hear the bell ending the 10th round.

I seriously doubt Ali would have fought Mike like he fought Foreman, there wasn't need to. He would have jabbed, held a whole lot, and kept throwing the lead right. Mike would have definitely landed some great shots, but it amazes me anyone could think Mike would stop Ali when guys like Foreman, Lyle, Shavers, and Liston all landed flush on him and he remained standing. Lyle was the least in punching power of the aforementioned, and I kind of doubt Mike hit much harder than him. Mike didn't have the awesome durability of prime Frazier, either.

All the comparisons to Frazier...Mike didn't take to people who weren't intimidated by him the way Frazier did. Frazier got even more pissed (which strangely seemed to make him fight better), while Mike got more hesitant. The lead rights would really foozle Mike early, breaking his forward momentum. He'd start looking less like a perpetual aggression machine and go more into his meeker, one-punch mode. And that would spell his doom against Ali.

To me this is a very unfair match in one way...1974 Ali was so much more ring-smart than 80s Mike. Ali would dump all over Mike psychologically and act INDIGNANT that some young kid would ever DREAM of beating him. It would be a psychological mismatch from the beginning to the end imo.

But that's just me, all respect to others' opinions.

 

How am I wrong? I know those basic facts, & said nothing to contradict this.
I did not even say that Ali would win in 1974-although I would slightly favor him-& said Tyson could win.
Are you thinking about what someone else said to you?

Also you totally ignored what I wrote to you-in some detail.
Which gave a few reasons why it is FALSE that Ali only countered.
I copy the relevant portion of what you did not reply to so you have an opportunity to try again.

"First, you are minimizing what he did, & the difficulty of executing it.
Very few could have absorbed that beating in that tiny, slow ring & stayed aloft.
some fighter's whole career is based upon countering-might as well say all Tyson did was find openings & throw combinations. That is a hell of a lot to do.

Also, it is factually incorrect.
Did you miss (edit: I meant not even notice, nor read about this bold, effective, widely discussed tactic) anything else Ali did, such as all the jolting right hand leads?
You did not even mention rope-a-dope. Think it is easy to move in a severely restricted space & minimize or handle damage?"

 

That does not make sense Mark.
Ali won the last round against ATGs like Foreman & Frazier-they were not "far inferior" to Tyson.
Although he was better at combo punching overall, there are many ways to be great.

It is an extreme thing to say one ATG could not take the last round against another-at least or especially if it is going the distance!
I am not claiming this-you are.
Since Ali was much more used to going deep into fights-& the only one who went 15-& while Tyson did tend to lose steam later, his endurance limitations are overstated...But clearly Ali is better at having high energy & reserves late-such as in Manilla when he & Fraizer set the record for HW punches landed.
Tyson never did, nor even dished out, anything close to that level of high volume assault.

Again while in a back & forth affair Tyson might win the 15th, I think Ali is more likely to.
But my point is it makes no sense to maintain that either one could not do so.