Explain to me that why Tyson hit harder than Shavers ?

Pretty cool list! I'm completely with you on the top 3. I need to watch more Baer.

 

You are actually an Rtard
Here I will make it SUPER simple so you have time to go watch when we were kings for the 900th time.
70s Foreman in a nutshell (Re-read it as many times as it takes)
He big and powafulll

Foreman big, powerful he beat Joe, Joe small, bad defence. probably shot.
Foreman beat Chuvalo, Chuvalo C tier prime (shot) easy target, hard head stopped on injury never good to begin with.
Foreman beat Norton, Dumb, no ring IQ no chin, easy to cut the ring against.
Foreman look Horrible against Parelta, Parelta small at the end of his career and not that good to begin with, showed Foremans ring cutting not so special.


Foreman lose to Ali, ALi was his own size know how fight properly had good chin (Shot by your own admission unless the 7 months before Lyle where magic?)
Foreman with Gil Clancy no ring rust lose to Young, Young fight to survive make everyone look bad (You right), lost to C-tiers, fat Ali (Not IMO) and Norton beat dumb fighters who look like they come off the street like Lyle, Drawing with Shavers and Foreman.

 

70s Foreman is the single most overrated fighter in history and It makes me headbutt my keyboard when people like GCC jump up and down like apes defending him lol sorry.

 

Those are good choices. But I have some issues with Bert Sugar. Here's one, his heavyweight rankings:

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Jack Dempsey
4. Jack Johnson
5. Gene Tunney
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Ezzard Charles
8. George Foreman
9. Joe Frazier
10. Larry Holmes

I feel his first two, though I feel they should be reversed.. After that.............................................

 

I like to think most here get that way whenever ANY boxer gets overly defended.

But we all have our favorites...I try not to hold it against people. My favorite is Larry Holmes (you probably knew that), and I'm sure I go out of my way to defend him. it's just part of being a fan, I guess.

 

Foreman's world class trainer said Foreman was very poorly prepared fot Young. Young had a better career outside this win than Douglas had outside the Tyson win. Now let's discuss Tyson's abilities on basis of the Douglas loss, shall we?

It's purely your guess that a number of big strong HWs would have done the sam thing to Frazier. The fact is that no one else came even close to flattening him like that. You speculate that many other would because Foreman did, and therefor you don't think what Foreman did was that impressive. A school book example of circular logic.

 

Bert Sugar was a ******* idiot who thought Carnera would beat Wlad.

 

The Botha fight is a perfect example of Tyson's one punch power. He was being one-sidedly beaten by Botha then landed a shot out of nowhere that instantly ended the fight. Wasn't even really set up in any way. Just pure power. Swap out Tyson for Shavers in that scenario and old schoolers would be jumping out of their pants.

 

No, Tyson hit both harder with one punch and was a better finisher. That's evident on video.

 

This is a tired old myth that needs to be put to bed already. Tyson had plenty of knockouts in later years that came from single shots. It was his later fights in fact that showed how hard Tyson hit when his speed and combinations had fallen way off.

From 1999 vs Botha.

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From 2000 vs Savarese (who went the distance with Foreman).

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From 2003 vs Etienne.

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Try to find anything from Shavers's later fights that resembles this.

 

Terrible list. No thought or logic put into it at all.

 

I never said that he didn't have one shot power. I said that his speed and and combination punching was what made him so dangerous as a younger fighter. All of those guys you just showed clips of are all 2nd rate fighters that in most cases not even top ten guys. Botha being the best of the lot.

Again, I'm not knocking Tyson. I am a fan and will always be but post prison he simply wasn't the same guy at all. He certainly had one shot power but had nowhere near the same level of speed and power of his early years. I'm old enough that I watched everyone of his fights live and am well of aware of these ko wins. I can easily post some videos of his Holyfield, McBride and Williams fights where his power was not enough to move the needle.

Power for power, I still think Shavers and Foreman hit harder. That doesn't mean that Tyson didn't have one shot power, it just means that I don't think he hit just as hard. Tyson had great hand speed, Joe Louis had great timing. Foreman had raw power.

 

Yes, I can agree with most of that (except for the Shavers hitting harder part). But my point is that any talk of speed and combination punching often masks or minimises Tyson's raw power, as if you can't have both and have to fall into one of several pre-set categories. Tyson lost a ton of speed and sharpness as he became older, no disagreement there, but that only made his raw power (which he always possessed) more evident as he came to rely on it more. With guys like Shavers that's all they really had, so it's easy to focus on it. But even when Tyson was forced to one shot guys he still got plenty of knockdowns and knockouts, more than Shavers ever demonstrated on film.

I just don't see any logical argument (based on hard evidence) as to why Shavers can be said to hit harder at any stage of his career.

 

We simply just have the word of Larry Holmes to go by in regards to who hit harder, Tyson or Shavers. He fought both and said Shavers without a doubt. Ali fought Foreman, Liston and Shavers and said Shavers as well. Holyfield never fought Shavers but said Foreman hit him the hardest and if you watch the 11th round of Foreman vs Holyfield you will see Holyfield hanging on for dear life from the 1:40 mark on. That was a 42 year old Foreman mind you.

That's three former heavyweight champions weighing in and they know more than any of us on this matter. Their word is good enough for me, I'm going to bed. Good night.