Nikolai Valuev Meeting Joe Louis' s Title Opponents..?

Valuev was well faded himself. And Holyfield was, as we all know, the Evan Fields PED version.

Meanwhile Loughran says this about the Carnera fight:

"In an interview late in life, Loughran said his loss to Carnera was a pre-arranged fait accompli: "I had to knock him out to win, I had to agree to that". Footage of the fight is limited and scarce, but Loughran contended he had Carnera in trouble in Rounds 4 and 10, "but then, when I couldn't finish him, I knew the thing was over". The decision a foregone conclusion, Tommy Loughran told Peter Heller in April, 1972, "I beat (Carnera), no question about it".[8]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Loughran

True? False? But there it is.

 

P4P?

I'd agree with you.

In terms of actual physicality?

LMFAO.

 

Valuev threw 400 punches in that fight. Haye threw 150. Both guys missed a ton. But in fights like that, I tend to go with the guy actually fighting. Especially if he is the defending champion. Not the guy standing around. I remember, going in to round 12, Haye needing more than two points to win the fight on my card. And he didn't get it. I wanted Haye to win that night. When he got the nod anyway, I didn't feel it was justified.

 

Loughran also claimed he battered Dempsey in sparring. He was full of ****.

If you read the next day reports, it's pretty clear Carnera deserved the decision and it wasn't very close.

 

Sharkey was much better than anyone Valuev ever beat (or even faced).

I guess you'd take them over Sam Langford as well, they have better records than him after all.

If you can't get above comparing raw records, I can't help you.

Do you have punching stats for Carnera and Valuev to compare? If not, you have no evidence of your statement being true.

Highlight reel as a proof? Seriously?

 

Agreed.

 

In a way, Valuev and Joe Joyce kind of remind me of each other. Joe is another guy who all he does is win. He throws a lot of punches. He is always outworking people. He is very successful, but you still get the occasional moron who goes "he's so slow he can't beat (fill in the blank)." Yet, despite Joe being 'so slow' as they claim, the same idiots don't see half the shots Joyce lands inside or see the excellent jab he's always using.

Valuev outworked people. He wasn't a speed demon. But he was very effective. And when guys their size are busy, it's difficult, with all that steady mass throwing steady punches, to do your work and not find yourself playing defense most of the night.

If you are 7'1", 310 pounds, technically sound, can throw all the shots, have solid endurance, have a great chin, and just keep moving forward throwing jabs, hooks, uppercuts, steady, steady, steady, you are not easy for anyone to beat. Joshua couldn't take the slow steady pressure of Fat Andy Ruiz because he was a load to move around.

There are weight divisions because moving 300 pounders around all night is tough to do.

And Valuev was not easy for anyone to beat. He went 50-2 for God's sake. Who dominated him? Ever?

I don't see anyone Louis defended his title against beating Valuev. I thought Walcott might, but then again Walcott was stopped by Abe Simon, so clearly even limited big heavyweights could give him problems. And Valuev made Abe Simon look like a dwarf. Walcott didn't fight a lot of really big heavyweights, either.

 

Correct, they were all mercy stoppages.

 

Well your opinion is unsustainable.

Anybody with a handful of good wins, by the standards of their era, is out of the argument for being the worst lineal heavyweight champion.

Men like Valuev, with one or two world level wins, are the credible candidates for that honor.

 

No he's not.

I just referred you to footage. If you can't bother to look at it then there's nothing to do.

I literally just posted two reels of Valuev and Carnera fighting. It's beyond obvious who is "more busy" It's Valuev.

You said: "he rarely could hit someone cleanly because he was so slow." as though it was a fact.

I assume that you admit that he could indeed hit people and knock them out.

 

Just not a good idea to take it to someone who is more than 100lbs heavier than you which most in that era was, I assume you seen the monte barrett fight, if you go trading with a man 100lbs heavier, the first punch that lands on you is gonna have you wobbling

 

And here's a counterpoint: was Valuev ever off his feet?

 

No, but part of that is down to the fact that he rarely fought anybody with a pulse.