Ken Norton Interview (Thoughts)

0.03 - Recently, I had the pleasure of speaking with former Heavyweight Champion Ken Norton on my radio show “Toe-to-Toe” heard on ESPN Radio 1490. Ken was in town with his newly published book titled Going the Distance. I must tell you that I have read many books written by fighters and this is one of the best. It is insightful, informative and a definite must-read. Ken gave me almost an hour of his time. We cannot provide you with the entire interview due to time and space restrictions.

Ken Norton is best known for breaking Muhammad Ali’s jaw as a 7-1 underdog in a stunning upset on March 31, 1973. Ali and Norton would meet two more times with Ali winning each time by a controversial decision. Here are Ken Norton’s thoughts on all three historic bouts.


Frank: Kenny, Muhammad Ali is held in such high esteem today because of all the great fighters he fought. You and Joe Frazier are the only two fighters he fought three times. Can you tell us why you were chosen to fight Ali the first time?

Norton: I fought on the Ali-Bob Foster under card against Henry Clark. After the fights he was down in the bar or lounge area with a bunch of ladies. I came down and kinda stole part of his thunder. He jumped up and said I’m gonna box you and started yelling I’m gonna kick your butt. So that was the beginning of the end for Ali.

Frank: What were you ranked at that time?

Norton: Seventh by Ring Magazine.

Frank: You were a 7 to 1 underdog going into that first fight with Ali. You fought as if you were the favorite. What was it about him that made you so confident you could beat him?

Norton: Bob Foster told me after his fight with Ali, he came up and said you can take him. I knew I would beat him because mentally I felt that way and my whole camp felt that way. I felt at that time I could’ve beat Godzilla.

Frank: Of all the fighters Ali has beaten, you are the only one he never beat convincingly.

Norton: A lot of it was the mental part of it. Ali defeated everyone mentally first. With Frazier, Ali had him so mad Joe was trying to kill him with every shot. With Foreman, he tried to kill him with every shot. Mentally, Ali could not defeat me and physically I felt I was as much a physical power as Ali was. He couldn’t upset me in any way and plus, I had Eddie Futch. Eddie knew how to fight Ali. You can’t go to the head with him. You have to go to the body first and then eventually he will bring his hands down and lower his head.

Frank: Over the years there has been much speculation as to the round you broke his jaw. Ferdi Pacheco who was Ali’s doctor at that time said it broke during the 2nd Round. What round do you believe it was?

Norton: Round 12. Ali had a break that was an inch and a half long and you keep getting hit as hard and as much as I hit Ali, the pain would take over and you would pass out.

Frank: Which one of your three fights with Ali do you think you fought your best?

Norton: I would say that the one I fought the best was the last one at Yankee Stadium. After 15 rounds I was not tired and felt I could’ve fought 15 more.

Frank: Which fight did Ali fight the best of the three?

Norton: Ali, I would say the second fight for him.

Frank: Which of the three fights do you think was the closest?

Norton: I would say the second.

Frank: Do you think Ali stole the second fight by winning the 12th Round with his two big flurries in that round?

Norton: Yes. Ali was bigger than boxing at that time.

Frank: Is it fair to say that Ali won the second fight by winning the last round, and that’s why he won the decision?

Norton: Yes, I can see why they gave him the decision.

Frank: In your third fight, which was for Ali’s title, it came down to the 15th Round on the judges’ scorecards. All three scored the round for Ali. What was your thinking at that time going into that 15th Round?

Norton: I was told by my trainer, at the time which was Bill Slayton, that I was ahead on points. He said don’t go out and get cut, don’t go out and get hurt, just go out and control the round and watch yourself and be careful. I went out and thought I did enough to have a draw in that round.

Frank: If you could fight that round again, how would you fight it?

Norton: I would fight it like I fought the other 14. I would just go out and win it. Like I said, I could’ve fought 15 more rounds.

Frank: In your book you say, after the third fight with Ali went against you, you lost your heart for boxing, but you continued boxing. Why?

Norton: I lost my edge for boxing, I didn’t put as much into it as I did before. I didn’t run as far. I didn’t train as hard. I didn’t eat correctly. I started drinking a little bit every now and then. Of 1-10 I put in about a 5. I felt that no matter what I did that they would do what they want anyway.

Frank: In other words, unless you scored a knockout you weren’t going to get the decision.

Norton: Right. This is not to take away anything from Larry Holmes who I fought after that, but if I trained for Larry the same way I trained for Ali, I felt I could’ve done quite a bit better.

Frank: Who was stronger, Muhammad Ali or Larry Holmes?

Norton: Oh Ali definetly, Ali was very strong but because he wasn't a one punch KO artist it is overlooked. Hitting Ali in the body or on the arms was like hitting a piece of cement.

Frank: In your book you say Ali is the best ever. Do you believe that?

Norton: As far as I’ve been around, yes.

Frank: Is Ali the best fighter you ever fought?

Norton: Yes.

Frank: You also say in your book that you and Ali are good friends today. Is it true that he was one of the first to come and see you in the hospital after your terrible car accident in 1986?

Norton: That’s very true.

 

People say that Norton when he fought Holmes, Holmes wasn't in his best condition. Can you guys look at Kenny ?? The fight with Ali broke him so much he lost like half the passion for it. Mental is amongst the HUGEST part you need in boxing. Holmes might be injured but mentally he is one of the hungriest lions during that time, while Norton is already WAY past his prime physically and more mentally. Norton has the full rights to brag that he could kick holmes's ass when he was more motivated or in his prime, but he just said could've done a BIT better....

 

I totally agree with George Foreman's assessment of Ali's 3 fights with Ken Norton. He said" in my mind Ali never really beat Ken Norton"

 

There are grounds for this. But Ali really did show glimpses of his prime in that 2nd fight. I've always scored that fight for Ali by two points, to me he pulled it off. I can see someone seeing it as a draw or maybe a point in favor of Ken.

 

I think Ali justifiably won that fight despite a great showing by Norton. And I must agree with you on Ali's form. He danced and jabbed and flurried like he had not been able to do since the 60s. This is Ali's best victory from the period after losing to Frazier until 1974.

 

Ali lost the 2nd fight against Norton, I scored 116-114 Norton. in the fan eye scorecards, the controversial rating was 52% while the 3rd fight was only 50% This also shows that Norton could put up a fight with prime Ali,

 

I had Norton ahead 3 points in the third fight, 4 points in the first.

 

"Never trained more than three weeks for Liston, never trained more than three weeks for Frazier," Ali told Sports Illustrated's Mark Kram before his second bout with Norton. "Been up here now 14 weeks."

No wonder Ali was able to dance, flurried and jabbed like he did when he was young like you said...

 

Kenny Norton is one of my favorite heavyweights to watch, certainly had his flaws but I found his style was absolutely amazing to watch. In my opinion he would give a couple of ATGs a run for their money (maybe besides the power punchers lol), I could see him having a razor think war with Holyfield and other slick boxers.

 

I agree, it was one of the few times in the 70s where his 60s glory days popped up more than in just flashes. He obviously wanted that rematch BAD, ihe must have felt that he had to prove things to himself.

 

It was the beginning of an extremely successful string of fights, followed by Frazier II, Foreman, and Frazier III. And people say Ali was washed up in the 70s, and not his former self. Yet, somehow he delivers four of his greatest performances pretty much back to back?

 

Just look at those names...geez, who has gone through a string like that since?

 

Very few.

 

Ken was always a good interview

 

Great interview liked that Kenny never came across as bitter even though he maybe had cause too .And i am a huge Ali fan