Top 10 ATG List and Why Pac is #2

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by dangerousity, Aug 20, 2021.


Page 2 of 6
  1. AdamT

    AdamT Boxing Addict banned Full Member

    5,742
    10,148
    Sep 18, 2019
    You also have to realise that mab is not Ray Leonard or even close

    Pacquiao is a great fighter no doubt, but Duran is greater
     
    AdamT, Aug 20, 2021
    AdamT, Aug 20, 2021
    #16
    Sooncreate3 likes this.
  2. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    82,092
    22,173
    Sep 15, 2009
    I know but Pacquiao was insane man. Insane. He still is tbf.
     
    lufcrazy, Aug 20, 2021
    lufcrazy, Aug 20, 2021
    #17
    tinman and The Real Lance like this.
  3. The Real Lance

    The Real Lance Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,108
    10,511
    Oct 29, 2012
    What he did will likely never be replicated. He was insane, a generational talent. Shame so many so-called 'boxing fans' hate him simply because of nationality or skin color. Picking sides has always been so stupid...
     
    The Real Lance, Aug 20, 2021
    The Real Lance, Aug 20, 2021
    #18
  4. Braindamage

    Braindamage Baby Face Beast Full Member

    11,040
    10,098
    Oct 1, 2011
    Before people start in on the OP for pointing out the primitive style of the old timers. I would ask that you watch footage of George Dixon. Nat Fliesher called Dixon the greatest bantam weight of all time. I think if Dixon fought today, he wouldn't be fighting very long. He would get brutalized. Very ametuerish style. All wrong to compete with today's fighters.
     
    Braindamage, Aug 20, 2021
    Braindamage, Aug 20, 2021
    #19
  5. jaytxxl

    jaytxxl Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,569
    3,479
    Mar 1, 2010
    I think ATG list should be broken up in 20 year increments. Or at least a pre and post 1950 list should be made.
     
    jaytxxl, Aug 20, 2021
    jaytxxl, Aug 20, 2021
    #20
    sasto likes this.
  6. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

    35,391
    38,233
    Aug 28, 2012
    This content is protected

    Notable opponents beaten:
    Harry Greb - Tunney, Walker, Loughran, Gibbons, Norfolk, Slattery, Smith, Levinsky, Miske, Flowers, Rosenbloom
    Sugar Ray Robinson - Angott, Zivic, Armstrong, LaMotta, Gavilan, Villemain, Fullmer, Basilio, Graziano, Olson
    Henry Armstrong - Arizmendi, Ross, Ambers, Garcia, Angott, Wolgast, Jenkins, Zivic
    Ezzard Charles - Louis, Walcott, Moore, Bivins, Burley, Maxim, Yarosz, Overlin, Marshall, Christoforidis, Lesnevich
    Roberto Duran - Leonard, DeJesus, Buchanan, Barkley, Cuevas, Palomino, Ishimatsu, Mamby, Viruet, Marcel, Kobayashi
    Archie Moore - Bivins, Chase, Williams, Johnson, Satterfield, Maxim, Olson, Cocoa Kid, Marshall
    Ray Leonard - Hagler, Hearns, Duran, Benitez, Kalule, Mayweather, Lalonde
    Tony Canzoneri - McLarnin, Ambers, Dundee, Singer, Berg, Chocolate, Arizmendi
    Jimmy McLarnin - Mandell, Singer, Corbett III, Ross, Canzoneri, Ambers, Leonard, Petrolle, Villa, La Barba
    Holman Williams - Cocoa Kid, Booker, Burley, Marshall, Chase, Moore, Satterfield
    Gene Tunney - Dempsey, Greb, Carpentier, Gibbons, Levinsky
    Manny Pacquiao- Marquez, Morales, Barrera, De La Hoya, Cotto, Bradley, Margarito, Mosley, Hatton, Ledwaba, Thurman
    Floyd Mayweather Jr.- Pacquiao, De La Hoya, Alvarez, Castillo, Corrales, Mosley, Cotto, Hernandez, Marquez
    Emile Griffith - Ortega, Fernandez, Rodriguez, Paret, Fullmer, Tiger, Archer, Benvenuti, Briscoe
    Tommy Loughran - Walker, Greb, Baer, Braddock, Carpentier, Stribling, McTigue, Slattery, Schaaf, Uzcudun, Levinsky, Sharkey
    Jimmy Bivins - Christoforidis, Yarosz, Bettina, Soose, Lesnevich, Maxim, Savold, Charles, Marshall, Moore
    Lou Ambers - Canzoneri, Armstrong, Jenkins, Cocoa Kid, Villa, Zivic, Arizmendi

    Most top ten rated opponents beaten:
    1. Ray Robinson 45
    2. Archie Moore 43
    3. Ezzard Charles 40
    4. Emile Griffith 36
    5. Manuel Ortiz 34
    6. Henry Armstrong 33
    6. Muhammad Ali 33
    8. Ike Williams 31
    8. Joe Louis 31
    10. Manny Pacquiao 28
    11. Willie Pep 27
    11. Bernard Hopkins 27
    Floyd Mayweather 25
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2021
    OvidsExile, Aug 20, 2021
    OvidsExile, Aug 20, 2021
    #21
    JamesLightsOutToney, BoxingWarrior, Jpreisser and 1 other person like this.
  7. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    20,253
    2,301
    Jan 4, 2005
    I already addressed this in the Op.

    For one, boxers record is incomplete. Second, in countries like Thailand, PH, Mexico where tons of bouts happen, many of them won’t be recorded. Most of the old bouts were on US soil which has better bookkeeping. Third, there were more pros back then but far more amateurs today due to the emphasis on amateur boxing.

    Basically, only the top ams usually go pro. I boxed for a long time and I’d imagine that if I were in the 20s, I’d be a pro to make a living out of it. However, I didn’t fancy getting paid nothing and getting beat up for it, I also knew I wasn’t anywhere on that level so why bother when I earn money in other ways.

    So it’s not as simple as a box Rex count.

    you would have to be crazy to think there were more boxers 100 years ago than today, given the globalised sport and increased population.
     
    dangerousity, Aug 20, 2021
    dangerousity, Aug 20, 2021
    #22
  8. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    82,092
    22,173
    Sep 15, 2009
    How much footage of prime George Dixon do you have?
     
    lufcrazy, Aug 20, 2021
    lufcrazy, Aug 20, 2021
    #23
  9. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

    35,391
    38,233
    Aug 28, 2012
    Boxing used to be a much more popular sport. More people boxed in the past. The sport's popularity declined significantly, and it's only because the population of the world has significantly increased that we currently see similar levels of boxing participation today.
     
    OvidsExile, Aug 20, 2021
    OvidsExile, Aug 20, 2021
    #24
    Rumsfeld and The Real Lance like this.
  10. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

    35,391
    38,233
    Aug 28, 2012
    Benny Leonard looks like a modern fighter in 1922.
    This content is protected


    Also, Barney Ross doesn't look primitive in 1935. He's got a different stance and guard, not doing ear muffs, but you'll see his technique incorporates a lot more crouching and bending.
    This content is protected


    Those other two clips show expert pound for pound boxers against other elite fighters, but I think to really appreciate how skilled but different the technique back then was you ought to see someone like Tommy Loughran, an adept outside boxer schooling James Braddock an unskilled slugger. Watch how easily he toys with Braddock using the high technique of the day.
    This content is protected
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2021
    OvidsExile, Aug 20, 2021
    OvidsExile, Aug 20, 2021
    #25
    shza likes this.
  11. Braindamage

    Braindamage Baby Face Beast Full Member

    11,040
    10,098
    Oct 1, 2011
    I don't. I saw it on line when I searched him. I believe it was a fight in 1906.
     
    Braindamage, Aug 20, 2021
    Braindamage, Aug 20, 2021
    #26
  12. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    82,092
    22,173
    Sep 15, 2009
    He claimed the BW/FW championship in the 1890s.

    1906 is way past his best.

    George Dixon is considered the pioneer of the "Slick Black" style.

    He'd do just fine against people of his weight today.
     
    lufcrazy, Aug 20, 2021
    lufcrazy, Aug 20, 2021
    #27
    Braindamage likes this.
  13. Braindamage

    Braindamage Baby Face Beast Full Member

    11,040
    10,098
    Oct 1, 2011
    This may be true, but he looked rough and not slick. He did look black AF though.
     
    Braindamage, Aug 20, 2021
    Braindamage, Aug 20, 2021
    #28
  14. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    20,253
    2,301
    Jan 4, 2005
    That's simply not true and no data to back that up. Professional boxing may have been more popular in the US in the 20s but not worldwide, certainly not when you account for Russia, Cuba, Thailand, Mexico, PH etc.

    It also doesn’t account for amateur boxing. It’s a different model today, you only turn pro if you have potential, usually.
     
    dangerousity, Aug 20, 2021
    dangerousity, Aug 20, 2021
    #29
  15. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    20,253
    2,301
    Jan 4, 2005
    What are you watching. He has his hands on his stomach, his chin sticks out, he charges in a straight line with his chin up. The fact that he looks somewhat modern and absolutely dominated that era speaks further proof as to how low quality boxing was back then.
     
    dangerousity, Aug 20, 2021
    dangerousity, Aug 20, 2021
    #30
Page 2 of 6