What if Tyson Fury retires after beating Wilder

cut and dice it how you like
ortiz is a better boxer than chisora

 

Yes Spzilka is glass jaw but caused Wilder a lot problems and was out boxing him more round than not.

Price, Hammer and Spzilka are what I would call low euro level guys. These are a level above the types of journeyman level guys that they have fought in their careers though.

Takam and Jennings are clearly Chisora and Ortiz best win.

As for Wilder, it's clear AJ, Whyte, Fury, Hunter, Povetkin, Parker and Ruiz have much better resumes. I'd argue Pulev also edges Wilders.

 

With that post you managed to make the Top Ten Most Delusional Posters list.

 

Am I wrong? His record is 2x Chisora, Klitschko and Wilder wins. His record gonna be 2x Chisora, 2x Wilder and Klitschko in October. Is there any HW with better resume except bodybuilding merchant AJ?

 

Well, if he retires, he wouldn’t have proven he is the best Heavyweight on the planet right now with Joshua. I don’t see him being ranked very high at all with Wilder and old Wlad being his only good names on resume.

 

All comes down to what you can prove.

Chisora went very close to beating Whyte and Parker, both of whom have better resumes than Ortiz as well.

Truth is, Ortiz was massively hyped up for a fighter who hasn't done all that much.

Chisora has more losses, but that's because he's not a coward who hides from the risk of being exposed by better fighters - some have proven where his level isn't, but some of those losses deserve real credit.

Ortiz against Chisora would be an interesting fight - I would personally favour Delboy strongly as the more proven and less declined fighter.

 

Fury only proved that he is better than a 40 year old Wlad. He didn't prove that he is better than Prime Wlad.
Even Sanders and Brewster beat a better version of Wlad and more impressively.
That's why if Fury retires now he doesn't even make it into top 20. You can't be in top 20 by beating a 40 year old, who was already beaten in his prime or near prime.

 

Ohhh you are talking right now, not all-time. In that case you are right.

 

heard it all now
chisora beats ortiz
lofl ok

 

If you think that's a laughable statement then you DKSAB - they're very clearly in the same ballpark and always have been.

Lean one way or the other, no problem... But this isn't a mismatch.

 

Ortiz's comparative performances:

Wlad won 116-111 in America against Jennings before Ortiz fought him, Ortiz got a 7th round TKO over Jennings in a fight he was having the better of, Rivas got a 12th round TKO over Jennings while down on the cards and Joyce won 117-110 in Britain against the oldest and most worn version of Jennings.

Whyte won 99-91 against the iron-chinned Dave Allen before Ortiz TKO'd him in 7 and Yoka stopped Allen in the 10th two years later. Ortiz fought Allen on the undercard of AJ-Molina in 2016; AJ-Ortiz and Allen-Molina would have been vastly more competitive fights but Hearn didn't want to take any risks, so he protected AJ and threw Allen to the wolves.

Parker won 117-110 in NZ against Cojanu, who then got KO'd inside 2 rounds by Ortiz, a more worn version was again KO'd in two rounds by Dubois and the most worn version was KO'd in 9 by Ajagba.

Pulev beat Thompson 117-111 in Germany and Takam beat Thompson 117-111 in France but Ortiz dropped a slightly older and more worn Thompson in the 1st, 3rd and 6th rounds on route to a 6th round stoppage.

Ortiz beat Hammer (who was a heavyweight Junior World Champion, beat Hunter and Teper in the amateurs, K. Johnson, Teper and Price in the pros) in America roughly as well as Povetkin beat a younger, less worn version in Russia and Yoka beat an older, more worn version in France.

It's difficult to find a direct link between Ortiz and Chisora because the obvious choice: Malik Scott, was so pitiful in his losing performance against Ortiz that I can't take anything from it.

Ortiz was a longtime member of the Cuban national team as an amateur with a record of 347-19, his best wins seeming to be heavyweight and cruiserweight fringe contender and LHW World Junior Championship gold medallist Mike Perez (beat Dorticos, Y. Martinez, Egan, Munoz and Krause) LHW Olympian Isael Alvarez (beat Makarenko, O. Anderson, Fragomeni, R. Hernandez and A. Stewart) SHW Pan American Games gold medallist Robert Alphonso x2 (beat E. Savon, M. Lopez, Rivas, Ruiz, Hunter and Fayzullin) and SHW Olympic bronze medallist Michel Lopez (beat Rivas, Zhang, J. Estrada, Solis x2 and Wlad). Ortiz’s best amateur achievement was winning the Pan American Games in 2005 at heavyweight.

Chisora had around 20 amateur fights and his best win appears to be low-mid level journeyman Tom Dallas.

Ortiz is 6'3 240 lbs with a southpaw stance to Chisora's 6'1 255 lbs with an orthodox stance. Ortiz's KO ratio (excluding NC's/DQ's) against 215+ lbs opponents is 83%, Chisora's is 54%. Ortiz has lost twice by KO to Wilder in 34 fights while Chisora has lost eleven times (though four of the losses are in some way questionable: Helenius, Whyte 1 and 2, Parker) and three times by KO in 43 fights. Ortiz's best official win is a 7th round TKO over Jennings in a fight he was winning, while Chisora's is an 8th round KO over Takam in a fight he was losing. On both occasions Ortiz proved to be Wilder's most dangerous and challenging opponent aside from Fury, while Chisora was hot and cold in his losing performances.

I don't know what Ortiz is capable of now at an alleged 42.5 but I would pick the Wilder 1 version to beat Chisora, Ruiz, Parker, Whyte and maybe even an aged and worn but non-shot Povetkin based on shared opponents and comparative performances.

 

Wlad had serious health problems against Brewster so that fight is irrelevant. The Sanders defeat was a combination of clean punches and headbutts but even if it had been a pure punch TKO it wouldn't have been as impressive because Wlad was far further away from his prime and not defensively sound enough. We know that one big punch can change a fight in an instant, especially for HW's; it's not much different from Lewis vs McCall/Rahman or AJ vs Ruiz. Comprehensively outboxing a uniquely experienced, 6'5, 245 lbs, perfectly conditioned world champion master boxer on a 22 fight win streak (18 consecutive title defences) in his own backyard was a much more impressive feat than catching him cold with a critical punch. Fury was also pre-prime at 27 (very young for a SHW) and was stepping up from Cunningham (an elite cruiserweight) and Chisora to ATG level.

If Fury retired right now he would be the GOAT on ability and have one of the deepest heavyweight resumes of all time in terms of body type, size, skill and athleticism. There were no athletic, skilled super-heavyweights before the 90's and no good HW southpaws or snipers either. A slightly past prime Wlad still destroys any pre-90's heavyweight and has a good chance of beating anyone but Fury. The demolition of Wilder in America is another ATG win and I wager that no other boxer in history could have fought Wilder coming off what Fury came off and not got either KO'd or beaten in their first fight.

 

He'd be in Riddick Bowe territory I think, one of those H2H nightmare fighters but without the deep body of work to back it up. Joshua will be seen as the greater fighter over time, provided he doesn't balls it up again.

 

Cunningham (an elite cruiserweight)

Fury retired right now he would be the GOAT on ability and have one of the deepest heavyweight resumes of all time

The demolition of Wilder in America is another ATG win