Why is Holyfield considered a top 5 HW?

Right because Tyson was a clean athlete and an angel who never did anything wrong inside the ring and Holyfield wasn't past his prime (even older than Tyson) and shopworn.

 

Evan piled on muscle, lost his hair, developed a medical condition, and was linked to a major steroids case.

No such evidence existed for Tyson at that time.

 

I never said Tyson did all those things specifically.

Tyson elbowed, tried to break arms, used a fake pengis to pass drug tests, did in fact fail a drug test, oh and he literally bit someone twice and got disqualified. He was 4 years younger and a natural heavyweight blessed with hand speed and power in both hands. He was also favored to win and Holyfield had been in some bad wars and was shopworn.

But by all means continue taking away from Holyfield's win like he just had all the cards stacked in his favor.

And the medical condition Holyfield developed hurt his career and stamina, it certainly didn't help. Which is why people were worried, he was gasping for air against Moorer and Bowe.

 

What's a pengis?

 

Something you don't have apparently, based on our interactions.

 

Nobody's disputing his courage, but gis wins are tainted due to PED use

 

You did

 

I keep wondering...if that were true, if we knew for an absolute fact that Holy was on steroids, how come Tyson didn't use that as an excuse for getting his ass kicked?

Mike said later he was truly amazed at how great a fighter Evander was, that he didn't realize it until he stepped in the ring with him. He has praised him to the high heavens many times.

The loss against Holy (both) were his most humiliating since Buster kicked him all over the ring. Why wouldn't he at least assert something about an unfair advantage?

 

Cause Tyson has stated that he doesn't think steroids make you a better fighter. I'm guessing he doesn't think they can improve your skill level, and he I agree, they don't. Holyfield was skilled with or without steroids.
But what Tyson doesn't seem to understand is that steroids make you bigger, stronger and improve your stamina, all of which massively help you in the ring.

 

How did this turn into Holyfield vs Tyson

 

You're falling into the trap of believing Tyson's bull****. He praises every boxer ever and is modest about himself.

He also claims to have blacked out pretty early in the first fight (I think from a headbutt) and bit Holyfield's ear in the seco d fight due to headbutts.

 

Evander Holyfield places just outside the Top 10 at #11 for me. Tremendous list of opponents but he lost too many times to be classified as dominant. Guys like Ali, Louis, Holmes, Marciano, Johnson, Tyson, Lewis, Frazier, Dempsey and Liston were dominant or had dominant reigns.

Dominating tough competition is my #1A factor when rating great fighters.

However, he beat a plethora of name fighters to be rated near the Top 10 or just inside. That's where his resume stacks up well despite losses, which is my #1B criteria when ranking the greats.

 

It's a species of Malagasy lemur with black-and-white coloration resembling a penguin, hence the name. Since they are an endangered species, Tyson was not permitted to import one, and had to settle for a fake pengis. It briefly made the tabloids, but wasn't really a big scandal like Holyfield's steroids were.

 

I thought he was talking about a penguin’s peni s

 

No worries. It's a common error to make when discussing lemur pengis. Most people just refer to it as "Oswald's Lemur" after its discoverer to avoid precisely this issue.