Has the Classic forum learned anything in the old vs modern debate?

you are right, but you think those skills were still wrong or so wrong up until recent years or so. that Is Wrong!

Boxing Progressed/Evolved from a more Grappling Brawling Physical type confrontation to a very Skilled BOXING Athletic type confrontation by the mid late 20s, another 10 years later it is the NORM, SRR was NOT Unique, there were THOUSANDS of Stylists, Beautiful Boxer Athletes the World over and there were also rugged brutal fighters, who by nature are not naturally 'Finessed'...

so by the 30s it was Already DONE and there has be 'little' if any improvement on that.

Nutrition or Equipment or shiny modern gyms mean NOTHING.

the Athletic Skilful Technicians have been here for approx 100 years now, but the thing that has waned greatly is Number of Honest fights where True Top men MEET Each other, and for years on end adding up to literally Dozens & 100s of fights.

that can never be replaced!!!

look at Anthony Joshua, he is a Fine Specimen, a Good Boxer, a Knock Out Puncher and in reality should be "the Undisputed" SUPER - Heavyweight Champion of the World... but we have all seen the questions, the weaknesses and the concerns.

Now place AJ in the 40s, (as an Average Size HW 6' 3"), times the number of his fights by at least 3... 1 of 2 things is going to happen, he will either Fall Away from favour, beaten by other great and capable men, or he will Expand his Skill and rise to the TOP and/or Undisputed Champion.

That's it, that is the only 2 realities of what would happen to him or any other 'Modern' fighter placed back then... but to Pin Such Supremacy on him or others now, is entire inaccurate and insulting to the Facts & History of Boxing.

 

If you try your hardest to account for film technology, you’re still not accounting for it enough.

 

Show some of your examples to these guys, Rezzie.

 

People were doing Leonard things for over 50 years and somehow they realized in a moment that it was never effective... or maybe, just maybe the change of rules and equipment has a little to do with that?

Do you really think that high guard defense would be effective with smaller gloves?

 

You could look at stats for athletes of equal size and experience. For example, 6'3 210 pound point guards in the 70's compared to ones in the 90's and so on. Taking care to pick ones who have similar professional experience. If the average guard in the 70's did better in terms of ball handling, passing, etc, by a significant margin you could safely conclude that the overall skill level for guard in the 90's was worse than the 70's.

Similarly, you could compare welterweights from the 70's and 90's. Compare who had a higher hit % (punches landed vs thrown), compare who got hit more often, who landed more body shots, etc. It could tell you a lot about the overall quality of that era.

And if you do it for multiple weight classes and see a pattern for that decade in general, you can get closer to figuring out if a sport had gotten worse at certain points in the century. However, it would also be important to pick fights between guys who are world class and not a big time superstar champ vs a bum with 7 fights (all losses). Otherwise, the numbers would look very skewed as far as being able to assess the skill level for certain eras.

 

This is RJJ, an athletic phenom who was always out of range and relied on his feet and hand speed to close the distance.

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this is gene Tunney. His opponent looks like a guy from my gym starting out and throwing a right hand whilst stickin his chin up in the air because he is both nervous about attacking and the oncoming punch, so his body propels him forward but his chin is saying “get me the fk out of here”. It’s classic noob move for amateurish guys who’s not fluent in the movements that goes against their nature.

Both are flat footed as hell and their range is ridiculous. How people cannot see this is primal shite I don’t know. Again, by people who’s never boxed. If you box you would understand what these movements entail. These guys are amateurs by today’s standards.

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Nice post, I wouldn't walk out my front door to watch those guys "box." If they are amateurs, they aren't top level amateurs. They are Novice level at best. If people want to see that level of fighter, they can probably find it on the first night of a Rough N Rowdy Brawl, by the second night, that level of fighter has been eliminated and the competition is a little better.

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I am not sure that he would to be honest.

There are fighters with low guards in every era, and not all of them are athletic phenomenon's.

Willard found a style that worked for him, and what he lacked could not be taught.

 

Exactly.

He relied on his feet and hand speed.

Take those away, and what have you got left?

 

That truly is laughable

 

That's why I suggested only using stats for comparably good opponents and not hit% against tomato cans.

You can also narrow the data further by comparing an outsider fighter vs an inside fighter in the 70's vs the same style matchup in the 90's. Even if the resume isn't the same quality, it should give you some interesting data.