What if Tyson Fury retires after beating Wilder

It's unbelievably simple - you just don't waste time fighting bums when you should be stepping up.

For example...

Joe Joyce right now has had 13 fights.
Luis Ortiz has had 34.

Ortiz best win is a gatekeeper in Jennings and it took him 26 fights to get to those dizzying heights.

Joyce has already beaten Jennings and another gatekeeper in Takam in half as many fights as it took Ortiz to get around to taking on a gatekeeper level fighter.

Now even setting aside that Joyce is getting overrated around here for a guy that hasn't beaten anything better than gatekeeper level fighters, nor has Ortiz.

Are we really, seriously going to say that Ortiz deserves to be ranked higher than Joyce because a 13-fight career can't possibly eclipse a 30+ fight career?

This ain't complicated.

 

What are you talking about? Wlad KOed Chambers.
You only try to prove that Wlad was prime at 40 because Fury's resume is total garbage.
Look at Wlads speed in round 12 when he was young. He looked in slow motion vs Fury and AJ.

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How is it reaching? You asked how a fighter with 13 fights could be ranked higher than a fighter with 30 fights. It was a simple request and I provided a simple answer, however you are happy to move the goalposts and now want another 5 which if I provide won’t be enough as you will want 10 etc.

 

He'll happily ignore my non-elite answer, too, don't worry

 

ATG? Nowhere
H2H? Nowhere
HOF? Nowhere

 

and ortiz is ranked higher than joe


how many world class operators
as fury and widler faced between them
nigh on 80 odd fights ish
one hand baby one hand

 

im waiting for another three
you took the first gimme i gave you the second
time waits for no man

 

That's really not a good argument for trusting official rankings...

Besides, it depends which list is your Bible:
- Boxrec: Joyce > Ortiz
- WBA: Joyce > Ortiz
- IBF: Joyce > Ortiz
- WBC: Joyce > Ortiz

- Ring: Ortiz > Joyce
- WBA: Ortiz > Joyce

Hardly a strong argument for rating Ortiz over Joyce at 4-2 for Joe.

But some of those lists are even more laughable than that - WBA for example lists Dubois as #1 contender, a fighter that Joyce beat without getting out of first gear (and without even needing more than jabs); WBA also doesn't list Joyce, Fury or Wilder in its top 15 at all, so that's a real useful list.

Truly world-class operators?

If we're talking about fighters who have the resume to claim that they're something more than a gatekeeper...

Fury - one or two. Definitely Wlad, possibly Wilder (Wilder doesn't really have the resume of a world class fighter, his best win coming against another fighter with a hollow resume).
Wilder - one. Clear second best both times, at absolute best (being exceptionally charitable) has won about 5 rounds out of 19, in reality more like 3.

 

Well, many fighters have been ranked higher with less fights than other contenders. You asked him at which point was Chisora rated higher and he gave you one. Accept it.

 

in 70 odd 80ish fights
no greats here
ortiz as fought the so called the hardest hitter ever which tyson also takes credit for twice
as i said one hand you have fingers left
and there compared to greats
joe will achieve more than ortiz granted
joe and ajs res combined makes fury wilders laughable
change joe for whyte
the 3rd fight obviously aint moving sales wise
they have more to prove
make a meaning ful defence like

 

lomo
in his second fight
my dog knows that
rigo uysk
standouts
chis or ortiz were not stand outs
one technical one rugged

 

And that's relevant to my point how?

 

Unless he fights Joshua after beating Wilder I'd rate him as nothing but a passing fad.
Finish the job. For once somebody needs to finish the job.

 

Top 25 probably.

 

I'm not entirely sure what you're even trying to say here, unless you're agreeing with me...

Yes, in 44 fights Wilder has beaten no greats and the closest to great he's fought is Fury (Wilder was embarrassed in I and battered in II) and in 31 fights Fury has fought one great (Wlad) who was arguably well past his best, still nonetheless a great.

Fury takes credit because... Wait for it... He won. In 99+% of informed eyes he won both times.

Ortiz got starched. Both times. Doesn't matter how much he was outboxing Wilder up to that point, he was knocked out cleanly twice.

I'm also glad you said "so called" - considering the very low calibre of many of Wilders opponents, most hard hitting fighters would've looked like murderous all-time hard punchers if they'd stuck to knocking out journeymen.

Are you really playing childish games like this?

You suggested that Chisora would naturally have been more highly rated when he'd fought 30 fights to Ortiz 13 - you've had a clear counter example proving that it is possible (because Joyce right now at 13 fights has done more than Ortiz in over 30) and you're demanding more?

Are you serious?

Of course he will... He already has... And he's chasing after bigger fights whilst Ortiz has sat inactive for 10 months since his megafight with Flores ( ) and has nothing scheduled either.

Somehow I don't think old Luis is going to overturn the deficit he's already got in resumes to Joyce if he's going back to fighting journeymen after losing to Wilder.