Manny's ATG Ranking?

Pac has some good wins but Leonards victory over Hagler, after being out of the ring damn near 3 years is more impressive than Pacs biggest win. Leonard was a big underdog in that fight.

 

4 stand out wins over 3 elite atgs and 1 atg is nothing to dismiss. Does pac have a win over a top 10 atg? Duran What about a top 20? Hagler What about a top 40? Hearns Hell no he doesn't not close he lost wide to pbf a top 15 atg was ktfo by jmm never beating him clearly to a top 75 atg lost to a faded erik Morales a top 80 atg and his best win is MAB a top 70 atg. That's not good enough to surpass a fighter whose wins absolutely **** on yours and loses aren't as bad as yours.

 

You took a very biased approach to that and on the surface that looks impressive but not so much when you take a closer look.

For example, on PFP fighters beaten you wrote 8 when it was actually only 5 and 2(based on your own count) were highly disputed.

You can't honestly try to argue that even the total of Pac's wins comes close to SRL's resume(Hagler, Duran, Hearns, Benitez)

 

Pac has more depth to his resume, but Leonard has the better quality wins.

 

Duran is borderline top 10 and wouldn’t be close to that if he hadn’t served Leonard, and that win was unsatisfying and not properly avenged. Duran just walked away in a competitive fight without taking much damage.

Hagler is not top 20 material and was faded, did not lose in most eyes, and was not given a rematch.

The Hearns and Benitez wins were great. That's two and Hearns wasn't given a timely rematch, and won when he got it.

These were not dominant performances like Roy and Floyd put forwatd.

Manny can be argued ahead of Leonard for weight jumping and putting in about twice the work at world level.

 

Umm no, Pac has 8 wins against guys on the pfp list. He fought rematches where Leonard didn’t.

Re: second paragraph
I did just argue that.

 

Still doesnt mean he places higher than Leonard in the ATG rankings.

 

I think Floyd is ahead of both of them and Leonard and Manny are neck and neck. If Manny beat Marquez instead of getting laid out, he'd be ahead. If Leonard gave an immediate rematch to Hearns or Hagler, and won, he'd be ahead. This is an issue that's better to come back to once Manny has been out of boxing for awhile.

 

Stop! Duran is a top 10 ATG and on some lists top 5. You're being stupid now and trying to discredit SRL's win over Duran. It's not his fault Duran quit SRL was ahead at the time, he won the fight fair and square. It was avenged your opinion of it is irrelevant historically speaking.

Hagler is a top 20 or top 25 ATG and he beat Hagler in a upset. ATG win no doubt about it.

He beat both Hearns and Benitez clearly you're not going to dominate elite ATG fighters like Hearns Hagler and Duran. Pac wouldn't have dominated them PBF wouldn't have dominated them. PBF dominated lesser fighters than these with the exception of Pac who's a top 20 to 25 ATG.

Pac's level of comp was no where near as good as SRL's and when he stepped up to the only elite level ATG he fought in PBF he lost wide. SRL didn't he won with the exception of the first loss to Duran.

 

You don't seem to get it, man.

Boxing, as in life, is more than just what you did. But also how you did it.

Pac's been the smaller dude since 2006-2007. That's an incredibly long time to be taking punches from much bigger men. That's just ONE reason why Pac is the GOAT. Ugas said he was was surprised by how small Pac was. All these guys are SHOCKED that Pac is fighting at 147.

And I'll use the example again...

If Lomachenko went up and beat Thurman at 147, 2-3 years after Pac, it would still be a greater win than Pac's win over Thurman because Lomachenko would be going up 2 weight classes. It would be one of the greatest wins in boxing history.

 

I do get it. He was also the much bigger man when fighting in the lower divisions, so that evens things out. He moved up and had success but he lose as well so that has to be held against him. He could have chose to stay at 135 and dominated but he didn't he wanted to keep moving up so he's judged for his wins, the quality of them and his loses. That's the way it works for everyone, Pac isn't the exception.

 

Is Pac>SRL?

 

Nah it's more about who you beat and SRL beat much better fighters than Pac did. He moved up as well through the divisions. Pac doesn't have a win anywhere near what SRL has. WIns over Duran Hearns and Hagler are 3 of the best in boxing history. He also beat Benitez who;s an ATG as well.

 

No chance.

 

Still living in denial son. Don’t forget the excuse about his injured shoulder.