Rank Liston,Bowe and Frazier on skill alone

Meh I got it the other way around. I have Frazier first, Liston second and Bowe last. Bowe had a good inside fighting game but his defense and ring generalship were terrible.

 

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I don't really think that this is possible, because a man built like Frazier has different "skills" than a man built like Liston than a man built like Bowe. And it has to be that way. If Frazier fights like Liston, he doesn't win, and vice versa.

They were all outstanding at doing what they had to do to win.

 

1. Bowe
2. Frazier
3. Liston

I think Bowe beats all of them

 

1. Liston was by far the most well rounded boxer. He could outslug you as seen in nearly all his bouts but as the Machen, and Whitehurst bouts show, he also had very underrated boxing skills, and could easily go the distance with the best technicians of the era, dominating them at their own game. He could also change his game plan and make adjustments whenever necessary, as seen against Williams, and Machen.

"As a fighter, Liston could box, cut off the ring, slip the jab, parry the right and hit with both hands. He was strong as a bull, punched effortlessly and had a cast iron chin. No doubt Sonny was a born fighter. He never got wild or spaghetti armed, and he kept the pressure on. Fighters who tried to box him either lost every round or didn't survive to hear the final bell. And those who tried to take it to him, like Cleveland Williams, Nino Valdez and Mike DeJohn, were taken apart and knocked out.

Liston was also a tremendous boxer who was fundamentally sound and hard to hit. Sonny had a great left jab that he used both offensively and defensively. Everything he did started with his jab. He pressured his opponents from behind it and forced them to deal with his 84 inch reach. His jab came out straight and even when he missed, which was seldom, his usually retreating opponent was out of position to launch a counter attack. Sonny's high guard and partially extended left hand covered his center beautifully and therefore his opponents were forced to punch around his left hand when they felt the gumption to go on the attack, which made it easy for Sonny to redirect their jab and punch inside of it. And unlike every other big puncher and aggressive heavyweight, Liston had no problem moving backward when he need to.

Another Liston tactic was to hook off the jab, which usually forced his opponents into his right hand. He was also able to get close and work his iron-fisted uppercuts from both sides on the inside. And because he held his guard tight and his elbows close to his body, he was hard to hold and move around, simply because there wasn't any body part to grab. And if you opened your arms and tried to wrap him up, he could take your head off coming up the middle.

Think about all the great heavyweight champs from John L. Sullivan up to the Klitschko brothers. How many can it be said about that they were both a great boxer and puncher? I would say after Joe Louis, is Liston, and a tier below them are Lennox Lewis along with Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko. And in all fairness, Lennox Lewis was a good boxer, but he could be forced to fight with his back to the ropes and then be held or he'd look for the referee to break the action. As for the Klitschkos, they're more than adequate boxers, but they rely more on their size and length to stymie their opponents, and offensively, they aren't very imaginative. What they do, they do well, but it's more driven by not making any mistakes and taking what's being given to them." - Frank Lotierzo.

2. Frazier's skills were also underrated as he's usually seen as a one trick pony, which couldn't be the furthest thing from the truth. His unpredictable head movement, cutting off the ring, etc were second to none. He was also capable of making adjustments when he needed to do so (though he rarely did) as seen in his bouts against Chuvalo and Foreman II. Here's an excellent article that goes more into detail than I have time for http://reemusboxing.com/joe-frazier-skills/

3. Bowe was abnormally skilled on the inside for a big man, had an excellent jab, and a beautiful blend of power and speed. His combos were stellar as well. “At one point I thought he could be the best heavyweight I ever trained," Eddie Futch said of Bowe. "I'm disappointed.” On the downside I agree with Magoo, his ring generalship and defense left a lot to be desired to say the least, and he also had a very bad habit of looping the right hand. I think he had a higher ceiling than both Liston, and Frazier but failed to fulfil his potential and as such ranks lower than both for mine.

 

1. Liston
2. Bowe
3. Frazier

Liston was best able to change his style and be able to acclimate to different types of opponent (Ali non-withstanding). Certainly more than the other two. He also had heart, witness the Marshall fight. He wasn't afraid of going the distance, and did it quite masterfully. His jab may have been the best the division ever saw (that wasn't Larry Holmes')

Bowe got hit too much, which somewhat negated the otherwise really good boxing skills he had. Boxing is about hitting and not getting hit. He did move well for a very big man, had perhaps the best jab after Holmes, Foreman, Ali, and Liston, and was overall powerful.

Frazier's smokin' was an underrated form of defense, but he still got hit unnecessarily. He was very smart in terms of cutting off the ring, and his inside game was at times devastatingly good. In fact, both his mid and close range approaches were by far his hallmark.

But I think Frazier was mostly about a great left hook, heart, determination, courage. Obviously, these are SUPER important (not to underrate those qualities, quite the opposite).

 

Good one Swag. I think i'd have Frazier #2 but there's nothing in it.

 

Excellent post, exactly my order and well put explaination.

 

Listons skills failed him when he was matched with his physical equal- Frazier’s allowed him to overcome psychical disadvantages. Riddick is a mixed bag depending how you rate fighters based on “skill” what is skill? How do we define it in this context?

 

i guess in terms of skill being what natural ability isn't, then Frazier, Liston, Bowe. They were all skilled in different ways, as mentioned above. So to me it comes down to how much they needed skill to overcome a lack of natural gifts, and how successful they were.

 

Frazier has a whole different bag of skills because of his style. Many are very Suttle and because of his need to excel at his style I rate him first by a good margin followed by Liston and Bowe.

 

Cleveland Williams was not his physical equal?

 

No- he wasn’t, he was fragile and never an amazing fighter with subpar abilities.

Listons skills let him down against Ali was my point when matched with his physical equal his skills let him down.