Let's Talk about Bob Fitzsimmons

You don't have to explain anything to posters here. The problem is, that you think so highly of yourself, that you believe those who don't agree with you don't see the full picture - and therefore must be taught what is "right".

However, I'm not sure that someone who thinks that Tua would lose to Corbett, and who favours Tommy Burns to beat Deontay Wilder, is the kind of teacher I would listen to!

 

Then permit me to make one observation about the nature of boxing fans.

The ones who are the most certain of their beliefs, on both sides of a given argument, are the ones with the biggest gaps in their knowledge.

The smartest boxing fans, know what they don't know.

 

What utter nonsense - how can you make a silly generalization like that?

All those poster, who are sure Tua would flatten Marciano - they are the ones with big gaps in their knowledge?

 

Not the ones who think that Tua would flatten Marciano.

The ones who are sure that Tua would flatten Marciano.

Very important difference!

 

I'm sure that I think Tua would flatten Marciano. But I'm also ignorant of literally everything else, although I'm uncertain of my own ignorance.

Does this mean Marciano wins, or not?

 

On a more serious note, we are actually working on less information in a Tua vs Marciano fight than most think.

Fighters of Marciano's weight and style haven't competed against fighters of Tua's for a very long time. We don't know how much the various post-Marciano banned substances have affected the modern heavyweight landscape, because we can't be sure who's using what. Most of our fighters of Marciano's weight are unhealthily rehydrated on fight night, so we haven't even seen fighters of Marciano's "natural" weight in a generation or so. We can't directly compare talent pools; none of "our" heavyweights has fought any of the 50s heavies. Even the rules are slightly different.

The number of guys who have to throw around gym stories about what it's like for a 185 pound guy to fight a 230 pound guy is striking. We are in the realm of rumor and anecdote.

 

Yes, the ones who are sure Tua would flatten Marciano - isn't that what I said in my post?t

 

If you are sure of the outcome of fight, between two men who fought half a century apart, then the most respectful description that I can use is overconfident.

 

Couldn't you find an easier example? It's not as straight forward as some believe.

 

I'm using this example, because there are some people, who appear to be absolutely certain, Tua would destroy Marciano. At least some of the comments in the Marciano vs Tua tread seem to indicate this, such as:

... He ends this quickly, and brutally.
... Tua screws him up.
... Tua knocks Marciano's head back into the stands within the first 2 rounds.
... Tua eats him up.

So are opinions like these the result of overconfidence or lack of knowledge? What do you think?

 

Dang, even Rudy Bob can’t get away from Marciano-Tua nonsense.

Fitzsimmons was one of the greatest spreaders of knowledge of his age.

It’s likely less than 10 percent of the population had any idea there was something called the solar plexus, and probably half of those who did thought it had something to do with the sun. Yet Bob brought it into the popular lexicon literally with one punch.

His contributions to the teachings of anatomy should be recognized in museums.

 

Totally agree .. when Fitz retired he was regarded as the best fighter of his age .. he was essentially a natural mocddlkeweight that could;d and did flatten heavyweights .. he was a warrior , massive puncher, very good speed, tough as nails, exceptionally conditioned .. interesting note , I was watching a Bob Foster fight the other night and Don Dunphy was announcing and said old timers used to tell him that Foster fought like Fitz .. interesting point ..

 

Thread title: "Let's talk about Bob Fitzsimmons."

Thread activity: Posters talk about Rocky Marciano.

 

I do think these opinions are the result of having too low opinion about B&W era. It's not surprising that most of these people don't say these things about 1970s champions anymore.

Now, of course it doesn't always mean that. Some people know boxing (most better than me) and they conclude that Rocky was simply too small to overcome that. Though people who call Rocky crude, unskilled and without defense in comparison to Tua definitely overrate the difference in their skills.

There is also another group who likes to overrate Tua in general. They see his power, his chin and they conclude that you can't beat him unless you're much bigger and much better boxer. I certainly don't see Tua as some kind of H2H monster, he never proved it in real life.

I think it's fair to pick Tua over Rocky. I'm not sure if I would but it's defensible. I do think that a lot of people who pick him without thinking twice are overconfident of his abilites. Not all of them, but some are.

I've said this many times - I don't know that much about boxing. I do know a lot about basketball though and I've seen a lot of knowledgeable people saying that Jerry West wouldn't make the league today. You can know a lot about the sport, but you also have to know a lot about sport's history and rules changes. Without it, you'd conclude that nobody before 1985 could handle the ball and you miss the fact that they were forced to handle the ball in oldschool way because of rules.

 

He's certanly one of the most experienced fighters ever. That's why I laugh when people say he was clueless and didn't know how to fight, despite doing so for 30 years at the highest level possible at that time.