Is Canelo all time top 10

Lol.. If Canelo had all time top 10 head movement then why was his head getting snapped back by 36 yo GGG over 24 rounds.

His head movement is good.. Nothing more, but there is a lot of unnecessary head movement that looks flashy

 

It makes him out of his prime and not as good as he was at his peak. Particularly his speed wasn't nearly as good and still Canelo wasn't able to avoid his shots too well for the most part.

 

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18:55

Literally the first that came to mind, and Qawi has dozens of moments like this. Saad, L.Spinks, Rossman, Scott, etc; all show defensive mastery that Canelo flat out doesn't have. And that's just one fighter.

 

At or above 168 maybe but prob not still

 

The sequence at 18:55 was not that impressive compared to what we've seen from Canelo. You call that mastery? He was bending forward repeatedly, bobbing and weaving and still getting clipped by Holyfield. He made him miss one left hook at 19:02 as he pulled back that's it.

How can you seriously compare that sequence by Qawi to this :

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Canelo made Jacobs miss 8 punches in a row and he didn't do it with repetitive easily predictable bending forward like Qawi did in your clip. Show me a sequence from Qawi that is anything close to this sequence against Jacobs.

Leon Spinks? Leon Spinks has defensive mastery that Canelo doesn't have? Are you high? You must be trolling. We're not talking about fighters who have good fundamental defense. We're talking about fighters who have shown the ability to frustrate their opponents by making their opponents miss punches through head movement, upper body movement, high level bait and move tricks that make opponents look silly.

Until I see a clip of any one of your fighters making an opponent miss 8 punches in a row like Canelo made Jacobs do there, you're not citing anything that can be remotely compared to that. I challenge you to find the best possible clips of whoever you can find that come the closest to what Canelo did to Jacobs there.

 

Another thing to keep in mind that makes Canelo a lot better when it comes to head movement and evading punches than fighters from decades ago is that he is benefitting from modern training methods and devices that specifically work on head movement and anticipating punches. See here :

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First take a look at 0:06 - 0:36 slow circular evasive movement training

Then take a look at 0:45 - 1:08 - faster reactive quick evasion movement

I don't know if people realize how these simple training movements translate to the action in the ring as a result of repetition in the gym. When you train your body to smoothly and effortlessly avoid shots from every possible angle like that in the gym it becomes like second nature in the ring. These techniques developed in the gym translate to the kind of sublime moments we seen him pull off in matches like against Jacobs.

Fighters from decades ago didn't have access these kinds of training devices. In the old days fighters had a speed bag and heavy bag, that was pretty much it. Of course there were other ways to develop evasion techinques in the old days, but the fact is that it's more efficient to develop these techniques today through these devices.

 

This video does a good job of showing some more of the kind of head movement / evasion techniques developed in training and how it translates to moment during matches.

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Description :

"Canelo Alverez is one of the most elusive, slick, defensive minded fighters in boxers today. And... Canelo Alvarez is one of the most aggressive, powerful, offensive pressure fighters in boxing today. Canelo is both of these things, a rare duality that’s been pulled off by few: Alvarez has the distinction of being an aggressive counter puncher, something that requires insane reflexes, terrifying power, and most of all, countless hours of hard work and devotion to the craft. While most successful pressure fighters mainly rely on either head movement or an active guard, Canelo is brilliant at both, and can even combine them together."

 

Have you ever considered the idea(fact) that Holyfield is dimensions above Daniel Jacobs even in a pfp sense ?

 

Also the question was who was better at coming forward, not who has better head movement though even that can be argued. Qawi is better on the front foot than Canelo. If you disagree you're smoking crack

 

You misread his post.

 

That part was a little unclear when Dialogue mentioned fighter that's coming forward, since the topic is about "head movement during defense" which is head movement when not coming forward.

I'm sticking to what this topic is about, head movement during defense, fighters who showcase skill in making their opponents miss when not punching. You can make the argument that Qawi was better on the front foot, but the comparison of this topic was not about coming forward or fighting off the front foot, it was about "head movement during defense", another words head movement when not punching, when trying to make opponent's miss, so lets stick to that in our comparison.

 

The comparison was shifted from "head movement during defense" to fighters coming forward due to BoxingDialogue's comment.

However Young Terror had already mentioned Qawi in Post #61 before Markus responded to Dialogue about fighters "coming forward". Lets not deviate too far off what this topic is about, it's about the best fighters in terms of "head movement during defense" not "head movement while coming forward" or off the front foot. That's not what this topic is about or what we've been comparing all this time.

 

The topic i replied with was who is better at coming forward than Canelo

And i replied with this.

Now, let's say that the topic was about defense, Canelo imo does have better defense than Qawi, that i agree with, but if we're just talking about defense i can list numerous fighters with better defense than Canelo

 

This topic : "Is Canelo all time top 10 in terms of head movement during defense?"

I understand that you were responding to a comment from Dialogue that appeared to ask you who was better at "coming forward". But that's the complete opposite of what this topic is about and what we had been discussing up to that point.

 

I replied to his question of who's better on the front foot. But since that is the topic of the thread I'll list 10 fighters with defense better than Canelo, not an any order
1. Pernell Whitaker
2. Floyd Mayweather (Canelo's daddy)
3. Lomachenko
4. Middleweight James Toney
5. Benitez
6. Prime Muhammad Ali
7. Chris Byrd
8. Rigondeaux
9. Miguel Lora
10. Prime Mike Tyson