Ring magazine is officially lost it

As long as the time machine carried his chemical lab as well, that may well be true.

EDIT: But then again, RJJ owed a lot of his KO ability to being extremely quick. Fitz kept his power later.

 

Obviously. Otherwise he would have been a lanky featherweight in the old days.

 

Roided up Fitzsimmons would be a terrifying man-mountain of ginger death.

 

"how good a fighter actually is"

No. How good the rater thinks he is. Don't confuse a belief with an objective standard.

All sports, not just boxing, are rife with contests which didn't work out at all the way the experts thought they would. But self-important "experts" are always correct about fantasy match-ups. That could be why they are so popular.

"JJW and Joe Louis"

And what happened in the rematch?

The only one I can think of other than Jeffries who has two wins over a man otherwise never bested over a 14 year or longer period without losing in a rematch is Ali over Liston.

 

Lol- Wlad would crush Jeff and so a win over Wlad is worth more to your legacy simple stuff man.
Exactly- Louis won. I said almost. Now my point being it makes a worse case for Jeff who is to say a version of Fitz who was younger would not have won If he went that long without losing he was good or matched good or maybe both- Jeff didn't have his number farther time did.

 

But still smaller then the massive 190lbs 70s *175lbs* Foster who would be 280lbs today.

 

Kelly Pavlik was actually Butterbean dehydrated.

 

He may end up killing half his foes in the ring Ivan Drago Apollo Creed style.

 

"Wlad would crush Jeff"

Provide proof.

But I don't think any opinion much matters here because it would be fair only if Wlad were born in the 1870's and grew up in Jeff's world, or Jeff in the 1970's and grew up in Wlad's world.

It is sort of like me saying I have lived longer than the vast majority of people in the 19th century. That is true, but the reason is the modern world and its medical care and nutrition and the like. I most likely would not have lived to my age in the 19th century. And those who died sooner back then would most likely live far longer lives today.

But the best advice I have ever heard is "the wise man knows what he doesn't know" and so I elect to go by what I do know which is a man's record in his own time versus guessing about what I don't know but think to be the case, such as moving either Jeff or Wlad through time into a totally different era and trying to figure out what they would be like.

 

It won’t matter what I say. So I will remain silent this discussion is over my good sir.

 

To be honest, I think I can see what he's getting at.

This forum relies to a very weird degree on imaginary fights to assess a fighter's place in history.

You don't see this in other forms of history. For example, if you ask World War 2 historians about how good the Wehrmacht was, they don't start debating how many panzer divisions it would take to beat Bush's invasion of Iraq. They're much more likely to compare the Germans to the foes they actually faced in real life -- the Soviets, Americans, Brits, French -- and analyze that.

Because when you think about it, matching up different eras is a very artificial way of measuring things, with tons of unknown variables. How does Ali adapt to tiny gloves? Dunno, exactly. Never saw it. Does Schmeling get to watch Lennox Lewis on film? What type of film? If so, how does Schmeling's style change to fight a guy like Lennox? Again, don't know. Never saw Schmeling react to, or face, anybody like that. What kind of substance testing do both guys agree to? Real fights have agreements about stuff like this. How long do they get to train? How would each guy respond psychologically to what's essentially time travel? Is Louis allowed to hire modern sparring partners to prep for Wlad? He would have done that in his own time, but allowing him to adapt to modern guys will make Louis fight differently from the Bomber of history. Or do we just drop them into the ring blind -- as no boxer in history has ever had to do? We don't have fights on film where a contender/champion just materializes in a ring with no preparation or inkling about who he's fighting. Would Tua adapt to that kind of Twilight Zone incident better or worse than Marciano? Again, don't know.

It's not so much that we can't be sure whether Jeffries (or Goss!) was an inferior athlete by today's standards.

Rather, the issue is that to actually get the guys into the ring, you have to concoct a ton of imaginary variables. So much so that the exercise looks less reliable the more closely you delve in. It becomes a fight between fictional characters who share the names and backstories of famous boxers.

 

I think if we had time machines, we would just pick a ring, grab said fighters at there peak and drop them in the ring and say go at it lol.
Can you image after winning the title, a month later Rocky Marciano is enjoying his steak and coffee only for us to grab him Bill and Ted style, drop him in a ring and say that is Lewis who is the heavyweight champion in the 2000's. Fight him so we know which era was stronger. Marciano would be shock, who is this guy??? I have not even done my months of training yet, What type of style does Lewis used?? Boxer?? Puncher?? And were the hell is my trainer Goldman?? I need this guy in my corner.

 

As rejected Dr. Who villain ideas go, it's not the worst I've ever heard...

 

I get it- yes myself. I used to be in a similar party the only real thing you can assess is how they reacted to other fighters and too many variables go into it. But a certain degree of common sense is required. A win over Fitz is not equal to a win over Wlad. Foreman would destroy Hagler- Ali is better then James J Cobrett ect. The MAJORITY of fighters in the early years are not equal to the ones that came after because it was in an infant stage I don't need to do any mental gymnastics to in vison a top 10 MW today making a joke out of Old Ketchel.

 

He does seem to change his weight balance throughout the fight too, being more upright at times.

I suspect he also did it to allow him to shift more weight forward as he hit.

However the Corbett KO really doesn't seem to be representative of his KOs at heavyweight. Generally he battered down his opponents, even using multiple combinations from hurting his opponent to finishing them.

I suspect his finishing skills and killer instinct set him apart moreso than his (undeniably esveptional) power