Why isn't Jack Johnson mentioned in GOAT convos?

He was amongst the best of his era, possibly the best.

Should he be discussed in those lofty heights as greatest of all time, yes he should be, but he was he, probably not. But I agree his name should be mentioned though.

Time, opponents, memories, poor footage, improvement and change in technique, and lack of people alive who saw him live at his best, all go against him, but it’s a travesty if he wasn’t at least mentioned even if it’s a foot note.

 

I think the old footages and fighting styles are unfamiliar to many people
For example, I once watched the documentary "Unforgivable Blackness" with a friend. He was wondering and amused about the fight scenes and asked me what is that?
Well, it was just another time with a different ruleset and often much more rounds. It was much more wrestling and clinching. The film quality isn't that great either. Jack Johnson had his own unique style and was a defensive master with blocking and parrying and great reflexes but he wasn't a spectacular puncher...

I think many people are more enthusiastic about fast-paced knockout victories, like Dempsey's over Willard. In addition, fighters like Jack Dempsey and Joe Louis were of course more popular than the hated Johnson (at his time) and became legendary sport idols later.
Not to mention more modern heavyweight fighters like Marciano, Ali, Holmes, Tyson, Lewis... whose styles and fight films are more attractive to the majority of boxing fans.

Last but not least, even many former boxing experts haven’t watched him live. Nat Fleischer who saw him rated Jack Johnson as the best heavyweight ever.

Anyway, I think he was a great champion of his time. A true legend who had to overcome many challenges and difficulties. I would rate him behind Ali and Louis (3 to 5).

 

Because Jack Johnson is a journeyman compared to the other ATGs

 

This I would have to agree with.

I think there is a good argument for #3.

 

One can also make an argument for Jeffries to be top ten along w Johnson. The problem is it’s a far different sport then the one fought. With limited footage of them. Also you failed to mention Jack had more losses and a lot of draws that you failed to mention. Could be a product of the times but even so Ali and Louis and Lewis and Marciano were more clear cut above the rest of their time. You could even say Holmes and Foreman and Frazier and Tyson were better record/ dominant wise.

 

You think Tommy Burns would be 6’2 and weigh 220 today as well?

 

I've always ranked him #3 at HW, for what that's worth. Underrated by the modern fan, even by those that obsess over the black and white film era.

 

Jack Johnson would catch Louis and Al's punches in his mitts, he was very fast on his feet and was a sharp shooter, didn't waste any energy nor throwing punches in the air. His balance was perfect and was aggressive. Nobody in world had a better defense than JJ. A great counter boxer. I believe in that period the gloves were four ounces, and went to six.He workout at Trafton's Gym in downtown Chicago, and everybody marveled at him. Case closed.

 

The roided-up monsterman you're describing is not the Jack Johnson of history. Your "Jack Johnson" is an imaginary character who shares Johnson's name, but who lacks any of the life experiences that would make him the real Jack Johnson.

There is no way to know whether a 6'4", 250 pound linebacker-sized reincarnation of Johnson -- assuming that's what his size would be today -- would even choose to box. Johnson was a very smart, charismatic man. He wouldn't need to make money with his fists in the modern information economy. Modern Johnson probably ends up a tall, unusually fit software company CEO or something.

 

Yeah- based on what? Losses to Hart? beating up Ketchel a few green murders row guys?
Or is it his decimation of MWs that makes you rate him so highly?

Papa Jack was good. But he ain't in the league in terms of greatness with actual ATGs H2H-resume anything. Historical significance yes but everything else not a damn chance.