Should the first 'knockdown' in Fury vs Wilder II have counted?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by DavidC77, Sep 20, 2021.


  1. DavidC77

    DavidC77 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere but shouldn't the referee have waved this off as no knockdown as the punch landed on the back of Wilder's head?

    (Not that it would have made much difference to the outcome.)
     
  2. Finkel

    Finkel Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Sure, he didn't aim for the back of his head. In that regard it was similar to the first KD in Wilder v Fury 1
     
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  3. DavidC77

    DavidC77 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    It's where a punch lands that determines whether it's a foul not where the punch was aimed.
     
  4. Finkel

    Finkel Boxing Addict Full Member

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    If a fight was ruled like that, I could get you easily disqualified
     
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  5. DavidC77

    DavidC77 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    A referee can only make a decision based on what he sees, he isn't a mind reader.

    Are you suggesting that a referee should deduct a point from a fighter for landing a clean punch if he suspects that he was actually trying to hit his opponent below the belt but missed??
     
  6. Finkel

    Finkel Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Depends. Are you suggesting in this scenario the opponent suddenly jumped to take one in the balls?

    Rather, what I'm suggesting is if a guy turns his head or say ducks under a punch and gets caught in the back of a head due to it. Then the referee isn't going to penalise the guy throwing the punch.

    I.e. if everytime I see you go for a hook I turn my head away you are likely to start picking up fouls by your standard

    You don't like my answer fine.

    But here are some recent high profile heavyweight fights which apparently fit with it:
    Parker v Chisora KD
    Fury v Wilder 2 KD
    Wilder v Fury 1 KD
    And countless other KDs I've seen.
     
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  7. DavidC77

    DavidC77 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    But I didn't say that Fury should have been warned or had a point deducted. I said that the punch landed on the back of Wilder's head and therefore it should not have counted as a knockdown.

    You were talking about where the fighter 'aims' the punch which is very difficult to determine.

    Using other examples as similar instances isn't really the point. I'm not saying that this was a unique, unprecedented incident in boxing.

    The fact that it has happened elsewhere doesn't mean that it should have counted as a knockdown.
     
  8. JDub

    JDub Active Member Full Member

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    Hmmm..... there is absolutely no place for VAR in boxing.
     
  9. Finkel

    Finkel Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well, that would still be penalising the thrower. And again, such a system could be gamed. Using the scenario I gave. Which would make the sport more dangerous not less.

    And giving examples is how things are discussed and supported.

    Sorry, but I got work now. Maybe someone else will agree with you
     
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  10. DavidC77

    DavidC77 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I didn't say there should be.

    If you want to use other examples, I would say that Hagler vs Roldan was a similar case.

    People often say (rightly, in my opinion) that this should not have been ruled as a knockdown.

    I think the same thing applies here.
     
  11. JDub

    JDub Active Member Full Member

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    How would you overturn a refree's decision during the fight without breaking the action to scrutinise the footage of the incident?
     
  12. DavidC77

    DavidC77 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    You're missing my point. I didn't say those examples aren't valid.

    Just because there are many examples of a particular mistake being made doesn't make it less of a mistake.

    I don't agree that correctly waving off a knockdown is a penalty. If a knockdown is not legitimate then the knockdown should be waved off and the fight carries on from there. No one has been penalised.

    Anyway... Have a nice day and I mean that genuinely and not sarcastically.
     
  13. DavidC77

    DavidC77 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Look... Please... Just read what I wrote...

    I didn't ask if the decision should have been retrospectively reversed either during the fight or after it had finished.

    I asked if the referee should have waved off the first knockdown there and then because the punch landed on the back of Wilder's head.
     
  14. JDub

    JDub Active Member Full Member

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    No, the referee can only go with what he sees. You have answered your own question.
     
  15. DavidC77

    DavidC77 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    In other words the referee should have waved it off if he had the benefit of seeing what we saw?