Having all 4 Belts...is it really a big deal?

Dubblechin · Sep 23, 2021

The Real Lance said: ↑

You simply didn't understand what I was saying, instead you kept trying to tell me "I forgot something," that wasn't even relevant to my point.
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Oh, I understood you. You said he was fast-tracked.

The only fast-tracked guy in modern boxing history who had to fight 37 times to get his first title shot.

But you didn't watch him until fight 35. So two fights seems fast, I guess.

Dumbest goddamn thing I've heard this week. And I've heard a lot of dumb things this week.

Some of you guys just like to argue, I guess.

But I'm out.

The Real Lance · Sep 23, 2021

Dubblechin said: ↑

Oh, I understood you. You said he was fast-tracked.

The only fast-tracked guy in history who had to fight 37 times to get his first title shot.

Dumbest goddamn thing I've heard this week. And I've heard a lot of dumb things this week.
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No, you clearly didn't. Fast tracked at 20 once he got on cable. Good grief learn to ****in read.... Go ahead make a fuss of him fighting as a 15 yo and fighting 30+ bums.

Ty is That Guy · Sep 23, 2021

Yes, having the belts is a big deal. It brings at least a little bit of order to a sport that is becoming more and more corrupt. Also, the belts force guys to fight someone decent. If not for the belts, guys like Wilder and Fury would end up fighting the worst possible opposition while saying that they are the best.

Dubblechin · Sep 23, 2021

Ty is That Guy said: ↑

Yes, having the belts is a big deal. It brings at least a little bit of order to a sport that is becoming more and more corrupt. Also, the belts force guys to fight someone decent. If not for the belts, guys like Wilder and Fury would end up fighting the worst possible opposition while saying that they are the best.
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You say that as the World Champion Fury is fighting the #2 Ring contender Wilder, who isn't his mandatory, next month ... and the guy with most of the belts Joshua is fighting the #10 Ring contender or he'll get stripped by the WBO.

The WBC didn't force Fury to fight Wilder. The WBC didn't tell Fury to fight him. A judge did. Because they had a legally binding contract. Fury can dump the belt and he'd still have to fight Wilder next.

The WBC didn't tell them they had to fight the first time they fought, either. Or really the second time. It was all in the contracts they negotiated and signed. And when Fury thought he could get out of the contract for a third fight, an arbitrator/judge told him no.

The WBO told Joshua to fight Usyk (who they put in their #1 spot before he ever beat anyone at heavyweight) and they said they'd strip Joshua if he didn't.

So, the orgs don't make anyone fight "the best."

In fact, you can try to fight the best, and they'll strip you 10 days after you win the World Title because you won't fight Czar Glazkov next.

As pointed out yesterday, athletic commission and judges can be just as effective, if not moreso, than sanctioning bodies.

Sanctioning bodies aren't needed. They can't even hold title fights in states with athletic commissions without the approval of the athletic commissions in those states.

When the BBBofC told Cooper he couldn't fight Ellis for the WBA belt or they'd take Cooper's boxing license away (and he wouldn't be able to fight anyone) because they recognized Frazier as champ ... that's power.

The athletic commissions could run the sanctioning bodies out of the game tomorrow, if they got together.

Dubblechin · Sep 23, 2021

All sanctioning bodies really do is post ratings, collect fees and call their 'belt guy' once in a while and ask him to make another one.

As a fighter, you can even win a belt, pay your fees, do everything the org asks you to do, and they'll still make three more belts and give them to three more guys in your SAME division and call them champion, too.

This needs to end. None of the orgs deserve to stick around.

Silver · Sep 23, 2021

Dubblechin said: ↑

Some titlists don't make very large purses. Orgs used to charge 3% of your purse or $3,000 (if you made less than $100,000 for your purse), whichever was more, as a sanctioning fee. I don't know if they still do the $3,000. I haven't bothered to check in a while.

But if you have four belts and lets say each org is taking 3% of your purse for a sanctioning fee, that's 12% of your purse going to sanctioning bodies.

If you're already paying a manager a 20% cut or more, plus your team, and everything else, another 12% off your take-home to give to orgs just so they "recognize" you as champ is a lot.

I remember when guys like Zab Judah had three of the belts (WBC, WBA and IBF) and when he defended against Carlos Baldomir, Baldomir said I'm not paying three fees. I'll pay one. So he paid the WBC's 3% fee.

When he beat Judah, the other orgs declared their titles vacant.

It's utter nonsense. You beat the champ in the ring, but you don't give the orgs their 3% fee, you "aren't" the champ in their eyes? That says everything.

Sanctioning bodies only exist to collect fees. They offer no service but ratings. And it doesn't cost anything to rate fighters. We can all do it in two seconds. Their "judges" aren't better scorers. Their referees screw up as much as anyone else's do. State or local athletic commissions can do much of the same work.

Every org is a cash grab even going back to the National Boxing Association ... which actually asked fighters to pay them thousands of dollars to "consider them" for the "logical" contender spot (which was the equivalent of the mandatory spot today).

And fighters would pay them $5,000 or something (in the 1950s) ... and they'd still routinely turn them down. ("We've considered your petition, and we've decided it's a no. But thanks for the $5,000.)

Talk about blatant bribery.

So it's been going on forever. There are just more of them now than there were then. And new ones pop up because more people want to grab a share of a fighter's purse for doing nothing, too.

Unless your promoter agrees to pay your sanctioning fees (some do) in order to help promote you as a top guy ... or you just want to prove something to yourself and win all four belts before dropping some ... financially, in the long term, paying four separate sanctioning fees is more of a drain than anything.
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good post. Yeah, it's all a hustle. Nothing more.

Ty is That Guy · Sep 23, 2021

Dubblechin said: ↑

You say that as the World Champion Fury is fighting the #2 Ring contender Wilder, who isn't his mandatory, next month ... and the guy with most of the belts Joshua is fighting the #10 Ring contender or he'll get stripped by the WBO.

The WBC didn't force Fury to fight Wilder. The WBC didn't tell Fury to fight him. A judge did. Because they had a legally binding contract. Fury can dump the belt and he'd still have to fight Wilder next.

The WBC didn't tell them they had to fight the first time they fought, either. Or really the second time. It was all in the contracts they negotiated and signed. And when Fury thought he could get out of the contract for a third fight, an arbitrator/judge told him no.

The WBO told Joshua to fight Usyk (who they put in their #1 spot before he ever beat anyone at heavyweight) and they said they'd strip Joshua if he didn't.

So, the orgs don't make anyone fight "the best."

In fact, you can try to fight the best, and they'll strip you 10 days after you win the World Title because you won't fight Czar Glazkov next.

As pointed out yesterday, athletic commission and judges can be just as effective, if not moreso, than sanctioning bodies.

Sanctioning bodies aren't needed. They can't even hold title fights in states with athletic commissions without the approval of the athletic commissions in those states.

When the BBBofC told Cooper he couldn't fight Ellis for the WBA belt or they'd take Cooper's boxing license away (and he wouldn't be able to fight anyone) because they recognized Frazier as champ ... that's power.

The athletic commissions could run the sanctioning bodies out of the game tomorrow, if they got together.
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And the WBC didn't tell Fury to fight Sefari, Wallin, Schwarz and Pianeta either. Yet if he was WBC champion, he would have still done just that. And how long was Whyte the mandatory when Wilder was champ? Also, the winner of the Wilder Fury fight, will definitely duck Whyte again. The belts work, when the belts force the best to fight the best.

Serge · Sep 23, 2021

Unifying a graveyard division on a deck that couldn't be anymore more stacked in your favour and you have the judges in your pocket everytime you step foot into the ring and your opponents know that the only way they can beat you is via KO isn't really a big deal, especially when you have a top chin and it's fortified even more by you being built like The Thing thanks to your PED regime.

Even though Callum Smith got his ass paddled in his previous fight by John Ryder and therefore categorically did not deserve to have the WBA title wrapped around his waist, Clenelo's fairy godfather Mauricio decided to throw the vacant WBC belt into the mix so that Clenelo could pick up two of the belts in one fell swoop. Again, Smith clearly lost his previous fight to John Ryder and should not have even been contesting one title let alone two.

Remember when the WBC decided to gift Clenelo his first world title by pairing him up against Matthew Hatton for the vacant WBC 154 belt? That would be career 147 pounder Matthew Hatton who had been campaigning at 147 not at 154. How the hell was welterweight Hatton nominated to contest a vacant title in a division he didn't campaign in? He was a welterweight not a light-middleweight and he had been campaigning at welterweight and was the reigning EBU European welterweight champion which he had won and defended in his previous three fights

Callum Smith won the title against a past it one-armed George Groves who was coming off a career-threatening shoulder injury and surgery to repair it just seven months earlier. Groves, who never fought again, shoulder did not have enough time to heal and it was still giving him problems over a year after the Smith fight if not longer. But it was the Super Six final and a huge payday and Groves didn't want to let someone else step in and take his place and his payday after having fought twice in the tournament to earn his place in the final.

BJS 2.0 looked like crap up at 168. He won his WBO world title in a vacant title match up against 27-3-2 obscure binman Shefat Isufi for goodness sake. All of his losses and draws were to fellow binmen and he got stopped by Dariusz Sek

BJS 2.0 needed a come from behind Hail Mary stoppage in round 11 to get past nobody Marcelo Coceres in his first defence. The judges had it 96-94, 96-64, 94-96 in BJS 2.0's but the vast majority in the RnB thread had Coceres ahead IIRC.
And BJS 2.0's second defence he won a UD over a completely washed up 38 y/o Martin Murray

And Plant has beaten who exactly? His best win by far is Uzecat who got his ass paddled by Korobov and after losing to Plant lost to Lionell Thompson later on in the year. Plant defended against Subway Mike Lee, Vincent Feigenbutz, and a completely washed up 37 y/o Caleb Truax

The best win of all the SMW champions Clenelo has beaten or is about to beat is a past it one-armed George Groves who was coming of a terrible shoulder injury and surgery just seven months earlier

Smith's best win is the aforementioned past it one-armed Groves
BJS 2.0's best win at 168 = washed up 38 y/o Murray
Plant's best win is Uzecat who got schooled by Lionell Thompson later that year

The only other real talent at 168 is David Benavidez who I'm a big fan of but even he hasn't really beaten anyone either. And Clenelo's fairy godfather Mauricio has been doing everything in his power to keep Benavidez away from his golden goose. He stripped him of his title for having a out of competition little toot of sniff but Valdez gets to keep his after popping dirty for PEDs shortly before the fight, escapes punishment and a ban, is allowed to fight, and then his opponent gets royally stitched up by not only the judges but by the ref too and is robbed blind

And Mauricio stripped Benavidez again when he missed weight after not being allowed to use the gym or the sauna for a few days during the week of the fight when he was in the bubble.

And even worse for Clenelo, he had to jack himself full of PEDs to help him bridge the gap as he moved up in weight and is clearly a walking PED factory who has morphed from an average punching ugly stumpy toad to a bone shattering bicep deforming power punching monster since going on his ''Mexican meat'' regime.

IsaL · Sep 23, 2021

Serge said: ↑

Unifying a graveyard division on a deck that couldn't be anymore more stacked in your favour and you have the judges in your pocket everytime you step foot into the ring and your opponents know that the only way they can beat you is via KO isn't really a big deal, especially when you have a top chin and it's fortified even more by you being built like The Thing thanks to your PED regime.

Even though Callum Smith got his ass paddled in his previous fight by John Ryder and therefore categorically did not deserve to have the WBA title wrapped around his waist, Clenelo's fairy godfather Mauricio decided to throw the vacant WBC belt into the mix so that Clenelo could pick up two of the belts in one fell swoop. Again, Smith clearly lost his previous fight to John Ryder and should not have even been contesting one title let alone two.

Remember when the WBC decided to gift Clenelo his first world title by pairing him up against Matthew Hatton for the vacant WBC 154 belt? That would be career 147 pounder Matthew Hatton who had been campaigning at 147 not at 154. How the hell was welterweight Hatton nominated to contest a vacant title in a division he didn't campaign in? He was a welterweight not a light-middleweight and he had been campaigning at welterweight and was the reigning EBU European welterweight champion which he had won and defended in his previous three fights

Callum Smith won the title against a past it one-armed George Groves who was coming off a career-threatening shoulder injury and surgery to repair it just seven months earlier. Groves, who never fought again, shoulder did not have enough time to heal and it was still giving him problems over a year after the Smith fight if not longer. But it was the Super Six final and a huge payday and Groves didn't want to let someone else step in and take his place and his payday after having fought twice in the tournament to earn his place in the final.

BJS 2.0 looked like crap up at 168. He won his WBO world title in a vacant title match up against 27-3-2 obscure binman Shefat Isufi for goodness sake. All of his losses and draws were to fellow binmen and he got stopped by Dariusz Sek

BJS 2.0 needed a come from behind Hail Mary stoppage in round 11 to get past nobody Marcelo Coceres in his first defence. The judges had it 96-94, 96-64, 94-96 in BJS 2.0's but the vast majority in the RnB thread had Coceres ahead IIRC.
And BJS 2.0's second defence he won a UD over a completely washed up 38 y/o Martin Murray

And Plant has beaten who exactly? His best win by far is Uzecat who got his ass paddled by Korobov and after losing to Plant lost to Lionell Thompson later on in the year. Plant defended against Subway Mike Lee, Vincent Feigenbutz, and a completely washed up 37 y/o Caleb Truax

The best win of all the SMW champions Clenelo has beaten or is about to beat is a past it one-armed George Groves who was coming of a terrible shoulder injury and surgery just seven months earlier

Smith's best win is the aforementioned past it one-armed Groves
BJS 2.0's best win at 168 = washed up 38 y/o Murray
Plant's best win is Uzecat who got schooled by Lionell Thompson later that year

The only other real talent at 168 is David Benavidez who I'm a big fan of but even he hasn't really beaten anyone either. And Clenelo's fairy godfather Mauricio has been doing everything in his power to keep Benavidez away from his golden goose. He stripped him of his title for having a out of competition little toot of sniff but Valdez gets to keep his after popping dirty for PEDs shortly before the fight, escapes punishment and a ban, is allowed to fight, and then his opponent gets royally stitched up by not only the judges but by the ref too and is robbed blind

And Mauricio stripped Benavidez again when he missed weight after not being allowed to use the gym or the sauna for a few days during the week of the fight when he was in the bubble.

And even worse for Clenelo, he had to jack himself full of PEDs to help him bridge the gap as he moved up in weight and is clearly a walking PED factory who has morphed from an average punching ugly stumpy toad to a bone shattering bicep deforming power punching monster since going on his ''Mexican meat'' regime.
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Everything you said, many fighters are guilty of, and or have benefited from A side status, including but not limited to Golovkin and his string of Welterweights that he's fought, preferential judging, and Pacquiao and his catchweights, refusal to drug test, his choosing to fight opponents after they lose and or look like crap, even Golovkin has done that.

So to me, you're just crying because Canelo is truly the best.

Babality · Sep 23, 2021

bandeedo said: ↑

precisely. ive never been overly impressed by it. it just says you navigated the politics better than those before you. there should be one guy who is better than all the rest in every division. people use the argument to pump up those they fanboy, and completely forget about it if the fave aint the one with the belts. its significant as a historical marker only, it doesnt mean this guy is a greater fighter because of it.
example. how many of usyks fanboys are gonna bring up how great canelo is for unifying all of them, the way it pops up anytime usyk is mentioned?
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Good post.

African Cobra · Sep 23, 2021

Goose said: ↑

If we had a sport where the best fought the best, every division would have an undisputed champion. As it should.

Currently though, the guy with four belts only gets them if they can navigate through boxing's sea of horse manure, tv networks, promoters, contracts, mandatories to make the fights for all four belts. And that dont even mean those belt holders are even the best each division has to offer.

But this is how they advertise it now....Canelo has a chance to become the first ever unified 168lb champion with all four belts. Woopty doo. Every division should have a champ like this already, like this is something special and happens once in a lifetime....Canelo already holds Ring belt ...which basically means Plant is just another challenger.

This is not a champion vs champion, just a contender vs. another guy who should already be considered the champ in the division.

All of this just highlights how dumb the sport has become....
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It’s a big deal because not many undisputed champions.

acie2g · Sep 23, 2021

The Real Lance said: ↑

No, you clearly didn't. Fast tracked at 20 once he got on cable. Good grief learn to ****in read.... Go ahead make a fuss of him fighting as a 15 yo and fighting 30+ bums.
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Dude it’s guys who are 30+ and have been fighting for a decatnkw and they resume isn’t as good as Canelo at 20, if the man has been fast tracked it’s because unlike most these fighters hes actually trying to make good fights, while the rest of these guys fighting bums ducking out begging for paydays

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