Classic Forum Chat: Size isn't the only factor.

Why hasn’t Spinks beat a bigger guy than Larry Holmes?

He beat Cooney didn’t he? Had Cooney weighed 20 more pounds I doubt he would have been any harder to hit that Spinks found him that time.

It’s not Spinks fault a guy that big wasn’t champion at that time is it?

 

When threads like "Liston only beat midgets and he wouldn't be top 10 at CW today" it's usual by a poster that I haven't seen before and who disappears pretty quickly.

Then there are the Tyson die hards and/or Ali haters that don't have much good to say about the ones preceding him (or anyone not Tyson) and they can hang around a while, but disappear eventually. White Bomber is the latest in the line of Combatdeboxeo, Revolver, Il Duce and others I can't remember right now.

Then there's Mendoza. But he really likes some old timers, but no one between Jeffries and the Klits. His own brand of troll, or whatever his game is.

 

I think Spinks was about 200 against Holmes but regardless the point is moot because Spinks was bigger than prime Jack Dempsey or prime Tunney or prime Patterson on the night. And in addition to that Spinks fought Holmes, he didn't dethrone a super heavyweight. We didn't see a case of a sub 200 pounder beat a modern SHW. The size difference between Spinks and holmes was big but not THAT big. And they were simikar in height.

Also Spinks was 208 against Cooney which is the only SHW he fought so he showed well above 200 against the only big man he fought. He wasn't a sub 200 pounder on the night.

 

Mr Mendoza has taken leave of here I believe. He's currently having his cell repadded.

 

He beat a past prime Holmes by debateable decision ,and a washed up Cooney whom he took in preference to Tony Tucker, who he was ordered to defend against but opted for the easier option.

 

It's more a case of whatever learning he's done in the last few years, probably isn't significant enough to where he couldn't have done it a few years ago. I don't see what he would've learnt fighting Chisora, that he didn't learn from Beterbiev or Joyce.

 

Cooney hardly was regarded as easier. He was favored to beat Spinks. The paycheck is what made it happen.

 

Only until he finds his Ring.

And then, the Forum will tremble.

 

Holmes was one year older than Usyk is now when Spinks beat him. And the first fight was not that controversial.

Tony was a complete nobody at that time. The IBF preference for Tucker was mystifying. Ring magazine had Tucker sitting behind Tyson, Smith, Thomas, Berbick, Tubbs, Bruno, Carl Williams and even a then unknown James Buster Douglas. Tucker was not a logical or outstanding contender. All Tucker had done was he had beat James Broad. That was it. To give you an idea of the value of the Broad win, Marvis Frazier was beating James Broad. And Witherspoon had flattened him.

I used to think Cooney was the easier option compared to Tucker, but on paper he really wasn’t.

back then I gave governing bodies more respect than I do now. Look at Spinks options at world level during that time. It’s easy to dismiss Cooney now, but Tyson had the WBC title. The WBA champion was committed to fight Smith/Tubbs then Tyson. And the IBF wanted Spinks to fight a complete nobody for chump change before meeting the winner of the WBC and WBA unification. Tucker was no more threat to the divided title than Cooney was. But cooney represented a whole lot more money.

Remember, Thomas and Berbick had been beat by Tyson. So Cooney was about the only name heavyweight with a recent win worth getting excited about not tied up in thr HBO tournament. By today’s standard on paper it was not a bad match.

 

I more meant he didn't learn anything about dealing with the similar sort of style (slightly shorter pressure fighter in Beterbiev; high volume behemoth in Joyce), not any of the stuff you're talking about. All of which is well and good, but he was perfectly capable of doing this vs Michael Hunter. Quite clearly so.

He's known how to pace himself properly forever.

But how do we know he's better at it than he was vs Briedis? He's never had to do it before, because he didn't have to vs Gassiev. He hasn't fought twelve rounds against an opponent as dangerous, or big as Joshua. But I agree, the beauty of what Usyk did on Saturday was his positioning. Having Joshua in positions where he couldn't land heavily, to the point where he didn't even feel comfortable throwing heavy, was masterful. Especially when you then take in the fact he managed to do this while also maintaining a very high workrate and using an incredible lead hand.

But even still, I didn't see anything Usyk did on Saturday which he couldn't do years ago. Put it this way, had Joshua vs Usyk happened in 2018; I have full belief that this would've been an even more impressive performance. By a decent distance, too. It's not ridiculous for a fighter of 34 years of age, having suffered multiple injuries and being heavier than his optimum weight being worse than he was in five/four/three years ago.

 

I was one of Michael Spinks' biggest fans during his career. And he proved size only works if you use your size.

Holmes laid back and boxed Spinks in their first fight, and he got outboxed. In the rematch, Larry walked out and threw Spinks to the floor, He fought rough. He pushed him back. Everyone thought Holmes won except for two of the judges, who rendered a highly controversial verdict. (And Holmes had an ugly history with them.) But he fought Spinks the correct way in the rematch.

Everyone thought Cooney would come out and attack Spinks. Of course, Cooney decided to box as well. He managed to cut Spinks, but Spinks figured him out quickly.

Tyson didn't make the same mistake. He just bowled Spinks over. '

That's what everyone who picked Joshua to beat Usyk figured Joshua would do. That's what everyone on DAZN expected Joshua to do. Use his size and his power and just bowl Usyk over. Take it to him. World Champ Fury told him to go out and attack. Former champ Foreman to Joshua to go out and attack.

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Even casuals knew Joshua fought the wrong way.

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I expected Joshua to walk out and bowl Usyk over. Basically everyone who picked Joshua thought he would. And myself and others said if Joshua decides to lay back and box or if he goes the distance or loses then that's on him and we need to reevaluate Joshua.

And that's what Joshua did. Came out jabbing. Tried to box for five rounds and got outboxed. When he turned it up in the middle rounds and fought big, Usyk started having all kinds of problems. Then Usyk fought back and Joshua went back to fighting at a distance.

All the credit in the world to Usyk. By the end, I was rooting for him to take Joshua's head off.

But everyone knows Joshua didn't use his advantages.

And everyone predicting him to win a return believes he needs to walk out and be the bigger man and work him over.

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If you're a big heavyweight fighting an old cruiserweight, you don't "BOX" him for Christ's sake.

When people pick the big guy over the little guy, they imagine the big guy will do what he's supposed to do. They don't expect him to go "I'm going to outbox the boxer tonight."

When the big guy doesn't use his advantages, the smaller guy can just make him look silly.