Classic Forum Chat: Size isn't the only factor.

I'm not sure we disagree on most of this stuff, although our emphases differ. My take on Tyson is basically:

* He was hyped way beyond what any real fighter was capable of.

* When you clear away the smoke and mirrors, Tyson was nevertheless an ATG fighter who could fit comfortably in a reasonable top 10 heavyweight list.

* Lewis and Holyfield were also guys who could fit into such a list, who were less hyped.

* All three of these men encountered ranked opponents who exposed serious weaknesses, and inflicted embarrassing defeats on them. Holyfield a bit less than the other two.

Our main point of difference is that I'm not that convinced by Bowe. I'm open to the possibility that Bowe was basically a Buster Douglas figure himself, who got a favorable matchup against Holyfield and managed to hold it together afterwards for a little bit longer than Buster did.

 

So they aren't bad fighters, they're just frauds with weak chins, poor gas tanks, low ring IQs who are afraid to get hit?

While also among the best in the world in their craft?

Dude, you can't maintain the same story from page to page and post to post.

PICK A GODDAMN LANE.

 

AJ is a body builder , he cant fight ( he proved that in quitting against a boxer who reminds me of Butterbean , fat and out of shape) , Wilder cant fight either ...
Not to take anything away from Usyk
But the HW division of AJ, Wilder, Fury , and Ortiz ...most who wont get in the ring with each other
what a joke
If anything Usyk just proved that

 

AJ's glaring weaknesses are to some degree mitigated by his size and skills, allowing him to beat your Parkers, Whytes and on his day, Ruizs. Wilder's flaws are mitigated by his length, power and speed as well as his tenacity. I didn't claim that Wilder was a hypejob or a fraud because he received relatively little hype for a long time and was, if anything, massively underhyped. I also believe that AJ's better boxing skills don't nearly make up for the gap in athleticism and intangibles that favour Wilder.

 

It would depend on what kind of top 10 it was but I don't disagree with most of that, save not rating Bowe highly. His win over Donald was likely his best non-Holyfield win but he had a wide skillset, size, athleticism and good intangibles. Beating Holyfield twice if not three times required a lot of adaptability because Holyfield had a few strings to his bow himself. The main problem with Bowe imo was his tendency to install kitchens in his bedroom.

 

GTFOH !!!
A fully focused Tyson was freaking incredible.
Your whole stupid assessment is based on fights where Tyson was either completely unprepared or past his best.

 

Tyson was a naturally tiny bully-coward who'd been roided up to 220 with a 3 round gas tank. He did have speed, skills, power, explosiveness but he was an accident waiting to happen. Add a lack of innate discipline and it was coming sooner rather than later.

 

Tell that to the boxing authorities. Guys that size are called “cruiserweight” nowadays and are that big in the ring contesting for CW titles

 

Tyson weighed 190 lbs as a 13 year old, so stop with this crap about him bulking due to steroid use.
Watch his fights with Ribalta, Tucker, Smith, and then come back to me with your 3 rounds crap.
When he was training hard, he had no problem going the distance.
And the fact that he didn't maintain his discipline is irrelevant. You judge him based on his prime form.

 

He was probably roiding back then too

But seriously, he came out of prison weighing 185-190 at 30 years old. He admitted to roid bulking after his career was over and passing tests with a fake willy.

Ribalta was very chinny as well as being a journeyman: why didn't Tyson take him out early? Tyson never had a consistent work rate through a 12 round fight, he got go hard for a few rounds but after that had to fight in bursts. He didn't fight anyone as good as the better 90's HW's in his prime (though not his fault) so it's difficult to judge him there but we did see cruiser Holyfield smash him after opening as a 25-1 underdog and allegedly having heart problems. As soon as Tyson was faced with a bigger man with a decent chin and skills who wasn't afraid of him, he started getting beaten up and crumbling under the pressure.

 

Or even the same men trained a different way?

 

Beautifully timed thread by Luf i must say. This one is surely destined for 100+ over many years.

 

The size gap in height was notable, 3", but the difference in weight between Holmes/Spinks (averaging both fights, it was more in the first fight & more than the gap between AJ & Usyk), & the gap between Joshua & Usyk was virtually identical.
Spinks moved up more in actuality, especially considering at that time for him it was not day before weigh ins-he gained at least around 25 lbs before the first fight, staying lean.
Usyk did not gain nearly as much, but since he started off MUCH heavier than Spinks as a day before weigh in CW, & Joshua came in not very heavy for 6' 6", the gap was less than 20 lbs.

Most of which was just due to him being taller.

 

Guys that size are as big or bigger than the vast majority of heavyweight champions there have been.Guys that size ,or slightly smaller include ATG champions such as Ali,Liston,Foreman,Holmes and literally dozens of top ten ranked contenders.That size is big enough for any man if the talent is there too.

 

Weight is definitely not a skill but size and weight can certainly be an advantage otherwise there would be no need for weight classes or weigh ins would there?