Let's talk about Usyk vs Joshua ridiculous scorecards

Some fans just love to cry about judges. It doesn't matter if the right guy won, it doesn't matter to some of these people. If even a single judge has a single round that they don't agree with, it's a scandal.

 

If that judge was really trying to find a way to give it to AJ he could have given him the 11th which was very close. I'm not sure how scandalous giving AJ rounds 1 and 2 were, I'd have to watch them back. Some people said that round 2 was close, I think round 1 is a harder sell for AJ than round 2, but many judges see the opening round as a feel out round. Rounds 1 and 2 may have been Usyk rounds, but they were very awkward rounds with not many clean landed shots. AJ wasn't throwing punches in those rounds with much authority and Usyk's punches were short, quick shots. I could see a judge being confused in general as to how to score those rounds due to the way punches were thrown and landed, that said it still was pretty clear that Usyk won those rounds.

 

Because it matters. These judges stick around and score dozens of fights a year. All it takes is two in one fight and you might have a boxer's career scarred, sometimes ruined.

It isn't just a case of 'not agreeing', much of the time the scorecards are blatantly wrong. There's no way on Earth you could score the first round here for Joshua. This is corruption. You can't let them slip through just because they managed to make the scorecard look semi-plausible after shifting some rounds.

I don't understand how a boxing fan can be less than outraged by when this happens. You have to be if you want it to change.

 

I'm glad you brought this up.

I was talking to somebody today who raised the 115-113 and asked me what it was all about.

I had sort of forgotten about it, on the night I was shocked but just happy Usyk got the decision because after seeing Hatton I had my doubts.

I said "it was the UK judge, what do you expect", I was almost shocked he even asked me, it is what we expect now, halfway though fights on here if the away fighters winning everybody is saying "incoming robbery".

Anyway, yeah, Howard Foster is a criminal in my opinion and shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a boxing ring, this isn't the first time from Foster and won't be the last.

This is what's we are now in the U.K.... we are a total joke, we are what Germany was years ago, in the days when the world used to look at them with disgust.

It's so bad that even British fans are totally disgusted, they booed the Hatton result, that's all you need to know about how the British fans feel about it.

 

Drama queens.

 

What matters is that the right guy won, which happened here. And it wasn't that close on the cards. Even if that one judge scored it a draw, the other two judges had it for Usyk by several rounds so Usyk still would have won.

I just watched Round 1 back again, it was pretty close if we're honest. Usyk landed the harder cleaner shots, but AJ may have landed more overall punches. I think the DAZN commentary had an influence here. They praised Usyk's work but ignored AJ's landed punches.

Let me be clear - I scored this round for Usyk because he landed the harder more eye catching shots. But I don't think it's that crazy to give this round to AJ. Here's a punch summary I just did of the round.

Round 1:

Pawing at each other early on, AJ's left glove touching Usyk's right glove.

2:49 Straight left from Usyk clipped AJ. Good shot by Usyk.

2:47 AJ returns fire with a straight right of his own. Not as eye catching as Usyk's but still appeared to land.

2:41 Right hand to the body by AJ, Usyk tried to block it with elbows.

2:40 Usyk lands an inside jab to the face.
2:40 AJ lands to a jab to the side of the head on Usyk.

2:19 AJ lands a good lead right hand to the head.

2:04 AJ jab lands.

1:41 Right hook from AJ, appeared to catch gloves and maybe grazed Usyk's chest, not sure how well it landed, but I could see a judge thinking that landed better than it did if he didn't have a good angle. It did back Usyk up, and the commentators said "nice right hand from AJ".

1:21 Jab to the body by AJ.

1:15 Big left hand by Usyk. Best punch of the round.

0:55 Clever circling right hook by Usyk. Nice punch.

0:43 Straight right hand by AJ, partly blocked.

0:35 Left to the body by Usyk.

0:35 Counter right hand from AJ, Usyk ducked it, it grazed the back / top of his head.

0:20 Right hand to the body by AJ, hit Usyk's right arm.

0:07 Nice straight left by Usyk, AJ counters with a straight right. (Usyk's landed harder, but AJ's straight right did appear to land also and it caused Usyk to back away towards the ropes)

So yeah a Usyk round for me, he landed the better harder shots, but if you're counting punches landed, you could end up with AJ landing more overall punches. AJ boxed pretty well this round all things considered. I don't think it's a scandal giving this round to AJ in a feel out round, but it is a stretch given that Usyk landed the harder more eye-catching shots. AJ's work shouldn't be ignored though, he was working the jab, landed a couple of decent shots to the body, etc.

 

Had it 117-111 Usyk, giving AJ 5, 6 and 8, just like the OP. I did make a note in the RBR that the 4th and 2nd to a lesser extent were relatively close. So, if you wanted to award one or two of those close rounds to AJ, that would make it a close fight on the cards. Thing is, Usyk probably had as strong a case for being awarded the 5th and 8th rounds as AJ did for winning the 4th and 2nd.

General impression as that any score from 116-112 to 118-110 is perfectly acceptable. 115-113 is giving AJ every benefit of the doubt.

 

Agreed but I think there's a tendency to act like Usyk was dominating the early rounds, when in reality the early rounds were close Usyk just won the rounds (like Round 1) by landing 1 or 2 really good hard shots that were more eye-catching and impactful than the shots that AJ landed. It wasn't like AJ was doing nothing in those rounds. AJ was actually boxing pretty well in Round 1 he just got caught by a couple good clean shots that were the difference.

 

Hatton won on the same card. Thats all I have to say.

 

Reality is, not everyone scores the fights with the same criteria so it shouldn't be a shock that lots of other people have scored the fight differently.

But what matters is they scored the fight right, nobody I have seen on here has claimed Joshua won, even after Fury/Wilder 1 there were a few here who thought the draw was about right.

We can debate to death the exact scoring but there is really no correct answer, one poster will be adamant the correct score is 117-111 another will be just as adamant that it's 115-113. Scoring is subjective and so you will get different scores if you can't except that then go watch another sport because that's boxing.

 

Without going through every punch, Joshua clearly didn't land all of those punches.

And then there's Usyk's superior aggression, defence, and ring generalship. Even the home crowd could tell that Usyk took the first round clearly and was dominating from the outset, the fight was so one-sided you can't even argue that the noise had an effect.

I'd like to see your account of why CJ Ross' 114-114 and Adalaide Bird's 118-110 were fair scorecards too 'from a point of view'. Heck, why not Campbell Hatton on this same card?

Fact is: when there are usually zero consequences and such a 'subjective' scoring system to hide behind, you can't expect people to judge a bout fairly. If you see a British judge on a Matchroom card scoring rounds to their own fighter that clearly go the other way - the answer is corruption. Unless you're his lawyer or Hearn himself I don't know why you're so keen to argue against the 98% chance assumption.

 

Yeah.
Eddie still is thinking A.J will continue to be No1 ppv and tickets selling force in the world after he had been finished by short notice replacement in Panda and spanked by guy called " puny cruiserweight ".
Eddie for sure does not have enough brains and will do every thing to ensure: A.J to win rematch.
LOL, and if no, all world will be guilty again.

 

Usyk should have eight rounds minimum on anyone's scorecard.

Of course Foster is crooked, but we knew that already.

 

I'm not arguing against anything. I made it clear that I gave the round to Usyk. I did the punch summary just to show that Joshua wasn't doing nothing. AJ landed some decent shots, it was just that Usyk landed the better more eye catching shots.

For a judge to give that Round to AJ, it's sort of borderline reasonable / unreasonable to me. If he's counting punches, and giving AJ credit for some of his half landed / half blocked shots, then maybe I could see how he could see it as a toss up round.

Like take the jabs landed by both fighters early in round 1 (with 2:40 on the clock). You may be inclined to only focus on the Usyk jab that he got in on the inside and you could miss the jab that Joshua landed to the head of Usyk. What if a judge was positioned behind Joshua when those jabs landed, if a judge was watching that from behind Joshua, the judge wouldn't be able to see Usyk's jab landing and all he would see is AJ's jab bouncing off Usyk's head.

On the other hand, it's hard to miss those two big clean hard shots landed by Usyk that were better than anything AJ landed in the round. If you have a relatively equal amount of landed punches, but one fighters lands two significantly harder, more eye-catching shots, that to me is reason enough to win the round.

All I'm saying is it's not like this round was dominated by Usyk to where AJ winning is inconceivable. This was a very close, low output round with both fighters fighting cautious, pawing at each other and maneuvering for most of the round with each man landing a comparable amount of punches many of which didn't land clean. What won Usyk the round for me was that he landed more of the cleaner harder shots, not that he significantly outlanded AJ in total punches.

 

I had it 117-111 Usyk, but 116-112 is not insane. I think Round 4 could be given to Joshua without outrage. I scored it for Usyk though. Give one more round to AJ and you get 115-113. I wouldn't say that rjudge was criminal or bought or anything. EDIT: He gave Joshua the first two. Oh boy. Didn't realize that.