James Jeffries vs Larry Holmes (1905)

The reports of the second Fitz fight describe Fitz as being able to hit him at will.Today that fight would most certainly have been stopped Jeffries had deep gashes above and below both eyes to complement his broken nose.He was definitely an iron man, but even iron has its limits if its abused enough.

 

Agreed. And it wasn’t like he was facing technical geniuses like Ali or men who had any reach on him.

 

He got rather more than his face cut ,he took a beating that is undeniable. All credit to him for keeping coming, but Fitz was nearly 40 years old hadnt fought for 2 years and was not anywhere near the size of Holmes ,nor did he have his great jab or reach.I'm trying to see how Jeffries wins this but its rather a struggle ,a concerted body attack with his big left hook ? Holmes took Cooney's punches to the stomach ?Did Jeffries have comparable power to Cooney? Holmes got up from one of the most thunderous right hands I've ever seen one man land on another.Could Jeffries hit in anywhere near the same ballpark as Shavers?

 

Give me a break. His nose was broken and he had deep cuts around both eyes. All this from a 40 year old challenger whom Jeffries had 30 lbs In weight on along with both height and reach. What possible advantage would you give Jeffries over Holmes ?

 

If Jeffries's era was genuinely as different as it's billed, you might see Jeffries by 25/45 round decision or some sort of TKO after mangling Holmes for long enough in the clinch. With Holmes suffering some sort of injury he'd be less prone to in his own time -- damaged or wrenched arm, broken hand, etc. -- that impaired his performance enough for Jeffries to grind him down.

 

Holmes ground out a decision against Norton fighting with a torn left biceps muscle that he went into the ring with this is documented,his best weapon was his left jab.Jeffries might have beaten Holmes on merit if they fought in Jeffries time, but personally I doubt it and I cite an inactive older Corbett going 23 rds with him and being in front at the time of the stoppage.Nobody is convincing me that that version of Corbett stands any realistic chance with Holmes or indeed that a prime Corbett was on a par with Holmes in any skills department.

 

I'm not going to be sucked in to another of mcvea's debates about Jeffries. Read contemporary reports to see how Jeffries dealt with Fitzsimmons, I don't see mentions about some kind of massive damage (though Fitz did very well in this fight).

 

No need to be sucked in about anything.BTW the title of the thread is Jeffries v Holmes,it would be a rather stilted debate if Big Jeff wasnt mentioned in the course of it imo.Here's some reading.[url]Jeffries vs Fitzsimmons II. Champ Beats The Most Dangerous Man AliveThe Fight City[/url]

[url]On This Day: James J Jeffries emerges from almost certain defeat to knock out Bob Fitzsimmons in their rematch - Boxing News (boxingnewsonline.net)[/url]

 

Corbett knew the same game Jeffries did. His surviving film shows a fair amount of sneaky holding and hitting stuff that's not allowed today.

 

The rules for individual fights were customarily mutually agreed before hand, hitting or not hitting on the breaks, leaning on in the clinches etc.

 

I think Holmes would fight a little differently if he knew it was a 25 round fight. I think he'd focus on closing Jeffries's eyes as quickly as possible because he probably couldn't last 25 rounds using his usual strategy, and if you want cut and swell up someone's face, you couldn't ask for better tools than Holmes's jab and overhand right.

 

If Jeffries is smart, he will ask for something closer to a free for all. Like the way the ref for Johnson allowed Papa Jack to push Jeffries's hands behind his back.

 

Might work. Jeffries would be well advised to stick on Holmes as closely as possible. Holmes doesn't have Ali's mobility, so that helps some.

 

does Holmes get advance notice of the rules, and guys to spar with who fight in that old timey style? i'd wager a technical fighter like he was would become very adept at that kind of clinching and how to deal with it.

 

That's the $10k question. The more we give these guys additional training, the more they diverge from the ATG's of history whom we have actually seen in the ring. It's a tricky business.