Yeah you knew it was coming. Where do you rankTyson Fury in h2h?

Yes. H2H he's definitely there. I see him beating guys like Tunney, Johnson, Marciano, Frazier, Charles, Patterson etc

 

Because he beat Wilder, right?

 

Because of what I have seen from him in the ring in his career. His skillset coupled with his size make him very dangerous.

 

He's in my top 10 after that last win. I put a lot of stock in getting off the floor to win and fury did it twice against a guy whose easily a top 5 puncher in history. Fury is a beast and he proved that the last fight wasn't a complete fluke, wilder was at full strength and gave it his all with a burning motivation for revenge.

Fury isn't the best in any one single category, but he's a jack of all trades. Can stick and move, use herky jerky movements to counter, and can now fight on the front foot to impose his huge size on the opponent. Fury also showed some decent inside fighting skills able to sneak in some good hooks and uppercuts while fumbling around in the clinches. Good guard manipulation.

I'd say the only things he's lacking are combinations and body shots. He doesn't have any obvious weaknesses and would be a threat to nearly anyone in history at his best.

My top 10

1-60's Ali
2-Steward Lennox Lewis
3-Prime Liston
4-Holyfield
5-Wladmir Klitschko
6-80's Holmes
7-80's Tyson
8-Joe Louis
9-Prime Foreman
10-Tyson Fury

I will say if Fury manages to beat usyk fair and square with no controversy and becomes undisputed, he can tie with Louis. The only thing Fury is lacking right now is a deep resume. Dethroning Wladmir and Wilder were impressive feats, but Wladmir was old and gunshy and Wilder is a pretty one dimensional fighter. We would need to see fury taking on a wider variety of styles and opponents to really bump him up significantly. Like say, fighting an Andy Ruiz, a Joe Joyce, Joseph Parker, etc. His resume is relatively thin.

If you notice most of the guys I have ahead of fury either cleared out their divisions or faced a wide variety of opponents.

 

He definitely is an elite fighter, but don't you think that it's easier to look skilled against mediocre competition?

 

Fury would own Foreman. George would make Wilder look like he had the stamina of a Kenyan marathoner.

And Liston never beat guys like Wilder and an aging Wlad.

 

Yes I do think it is easier to look great against mediocre opposition, but all great ATGs have faced mediocre opposition. Fury would look just as good as Ali (if not better) against a bum like Folley, a shot Williams and a mediocre Terrell.
Wilder might be mediocre skill wise, but he's among the top 5 hardest hitters of all time.
Wlad, although past his best, was still a great HW when Fury beat him. And he's also among the top 5 hardest hitters of all time.

 

The difference is that Ali also looks great against top tier competition.

So is Shavers, beating him doesn't make you ATG.

That's true, but it's the only elite win that Fury has.

 

Just for shits and giggles, I'll try and name ten better than him, head-to-head.

Muhammad Ali
Mike Tyson
Larry Holmes
Joe Frazier
Joe Louis
George Foreman
Lennox Lewis
Sonny Liston
Evander Holyfield
Riddick Bowe

..... so there's ten.

Furthermore, I wouldn't be against arguments for Usyk, the Klitschko's, Douglas, Norton and Marciano. For now though, I think Fury has seperated himself from the pack of fighters like Ibeabuci, Witherspoon and, indeed, Norton and Douglas. He's probably above that level of ability IMO. I'd also go to say that he beats, albeit not easily, almost all fighters below 200lbs.

Now while I'd likely have Fury poking around the 12/13 mark, I think it's important to say, that is incredibly high. Especially for someone with only two 'elite' opponents. Especially when one asks themselves whether Wilder was ever elite, or if Klitschko was by that point. However, Fury does seem to be an absolute nightmare, and could essentially beat almost everyone on this list. Not that I'd take him to beat a Louis or a Frazier, but I might take him to beat a Liston or a Foreman.

 

Not really.
Liston was in a similar situation to Wlad. He did not prepare properly and was old.
Ali had to resort to cheating (excessive holding, pushing down) in order to beat Frazier, who was beginning to loose one eye.
Foreman was the Wilder of his era. A bit more advanced skill wise, but also slower and just as stupid as Wilder (in the sense that he was also in love with his power)

 

Fury’s wins over Wilder and Wlad stack up respectably or favorably to the top three wins of any heavyweight ever.

His resume totally falls apart after that, but his top three wins are first rate.

 

Cool, so Liston fight equates to Fury's whole resume outside of Wilder fights.

Fury also did these stuff against Wilder.
I don't understand why people are so harsh about dirty boxing, it's not a ballet.

Foreman is tiers ahead of Wilder, stop this...

That leaves us with other Ali fights, that includes:
- Floyd Patterson,
- Earnie Terrell,
- Zora Folley,
- Jerry Quarry,
- Oscar Bonavena,
- Jimmy Ellis,
- Ken Norton,
- Ron Lyle,

to name a few. Who does Fury have on his resume that compares to them?

 

And heart McG, he’s up there with the best ever in that category for me

 

1-a top 10 h2h list doesn't mean the guy at #1 "always" beats the guy at #2 or the #6 guy always beats the #7 guy. Even though I ranked Holmes higher than Tyson, I think Tyson would still beat him even in their primes. The list simply means that the higher your rank, the more likely you are to have more wins than losses if you had a tournament of all the heavies.

2--wilder didn't throw nearly as many punches as Foreman per round. Your comparison to Kenyan runners is absurd because wilder isn't some sort of stamina monster.

3-styles make fights. Liston would go through Wladmir like a hot knife through butter but would probably struggle with a prime Holmes even though I ranked Wladmir above Holmes.

4-do you need to zero in on any post that mentions Foreman and go out of your way to point out your disliking of him? I like how you glossed over the whole post and that was the first thing you chose to respond to. You're reaching choklab levels of obsession.

 

Not even close.

Wilder was never ever better than mere good, nor was he ever the best in the world.

Wlad was a great passing-of-the-torch fight, but it's far from one of the best wins ever.